Something I noticed in me, that could be a useful heuristic too, is that when I'm going to meet my partner, I genuinely feel happy and look forward to see him. Even after a long day at work, or when I'm tired after travelling. With my ex, returning from a long day at work, my pace would slow down the closer to our place I got and I'd brace myself before getting in.
Yes, I notice this too. I am introverted and my best friends are the ones for whom I don't need to work up any energy to hang out with them, like I do for most people (even those I like!). It's like this for me with my guy, too; it's not draining at all even when I am "peopled out."
I used to feel the same on the drive home from work.....dread....I was married to a functioning alcoholic & never knew what lay in store for me once I got home.
That’s a really great point. In the early years of my marriage, I’d hear my ex’s key in the door and feel this rush I called butterflies, to others and to myself. Looking back, it wasn’t butterflies at all. It was nervousness, bracing to read his mood so I could adjust mine and keep things smooth.
By the end, it was worse. Turning onto our street, my heart would sink if his car was in the driveway. On the days it wasn’t there, I felt relief, knowing I’d have some time to myself. So yes, that’s a really great question to sit with.
I used to feel the same on the drive home from work.....dread....I was married to a functioning alcoholic & never knew what lay in store for me once I got home.
I was getting confused distinguishing between chemistry and anxiety. After a 27 yr marriage that ended with trauma, 5 years of therapy and a 5 month solo RV roadtrip that fulfilled a promise and gave me so much joy and confidence I thought I was ready. I had not dated since I was 22yo and 60 was around the corner. Plus dating was now with apps!!
Two short relationships (6 months each) that started with great conversations and what I felt, amazing chemistry ended up actually being huge anxiety filled months. The joy and confidence I had gained was slipping away. I am reading the book and learning so much. Jennie’s question is exactly what I needed. If I feel any twinges of anxiety, walking away! I’m looking for compatibility and peace, chemistry will follow. Thank you so much!!!
As someone who NEVER feels instant chemistry, I have trouble understanding this....but the question makes sense to me!! I NEVER feel attracted to people until I get to know them, the hardest part is finding people who have the patience to let me get there. But i love the first date at the dump to help with the carpet! That is a huge green flag along with the PATIENCE exhibited!
I think it's not only about instant chemistry (although that is often an issue), it's also about mentally believing unless someone has some "cool stuff" going on, they are going to be boring, and not even letting someone like that into our lives. At least for me that has always been an issue in the past. Not dating now.
Im not actively dating right now either...the thing is is that I do get bored so quickly with the small talk, part, but i know that bores me....in the beginning, they all seem a little boring to me, i seriously have to have a connection to someone to find them attractive.
Xena, I relate to this. I don’t really feel deep attraction until I see a pattern of consistency and genuine intention. After trust has been built my feelings grow but men are often impatient. I did find my needle who continually proved himself by showing me a warm, empathetic, intentional demeanor over time.
That gives me some hope ❤️ so many are way too impatient so I never even get to see if I might be able to like them....and if they are like that, I instantly know it wont work. Im so happy for you! ❤️
Isn't it wonderful, post-BHDM, to now realize that fact instantaneously? It saves so much time and it's so freeing, in contrast to feeling rejected because the guy was ready to move on.
Before this and seeing so many stories and comments from others, I would just have thought i was just broken, unlovable or rejected. But now I see that these are just not the right type of men for me. I just hope the more patient one is out there somewhere. If hes not, im okay this way too 😁
I never feel quick chemistry either, so this whole genre of relationship advice is perplexing to me. But the 3 possible responses in the post make sense to me, as do Logan Ury’s ‘Post Date 8.’ There are so many perfectly fine men that my difficulty is knowing when to trust that the meh is never getting less meh and so far ‘am I curious, do I want to learn more’ is my best guide.
I’m ENM, tho. I just wrote a user guide for the Haystack book for people like me who have been happily in years long non-serious relationships as well as happy long term serious and happy short term.
This came up in another post, about making time for Success Stories, and making time for reading Success Stories, and making time for other things in life that are successes rather than rushing onto the next thing you are working on... it is important to slow down and FEEL what the good things FEEL like. If you never mindfully pay attention to the relaxation and peace of enjoying listening to the birds, or the heart-expanding joy of feeling proud of an accomplishment, then you will not know to LOOK for that, and to SEEK IT OUT. You will not realize what it means when it's happening to you in other settings. So attach great meaning to moments of quiet peace and joy -- finding those and being able to rest in those moments are of utmost importance, the top of the to-do list.
Especially when you realize that you can feel and experience those without sharing them. I think all of us who have all their lives thought they can only be happy with someone with "an edge" (or more than one) probably also found it very hard to have these experiences, being proud, enjoying a calm moment, experiencing an amazing view in nature, eating something delicious, hearing a piece of moving music for the first time, reading a great book, and so on, by ourselves and for ourselves. The meaning came from sharing those experiences or having the person we admired (for their edge :o() agreeing. This takes time and patience but when you get there...it's bliss.
I continue to ask myself whether what I'm looking for doesn't exist - success stories like this one confirm: these needles do truly exist. Let's ask for more! This story gives me hope
I spent years searching for instant chemistry and it alone propelled me through several years of dating. In hindsight, it was the definitely the wrong tactic. Dating was exhausting, frustrating, and disappointing. Seven years into dating without success, I started seeing instant and intense chemistry as a red flag. Less than a year later I met my needle, who I'm still happily with 3 years later. It's the healthiest, happiest, most secure and stable relationship I've had in my life (and I'm 55!). Quick chemistry = bad
I mean, surely there are times when there is immediate chemistry with someone great? It’s just not the only way to get to something good. For the other poster, she realized she had a pattern, which is smart and self-aware, but may not be 100% true for everyone.
It was definitely true for me. None of the men I had instant chemistry with panned out for whatever reason. They ghosted, made excuses, or the 2nd dates were downers. With my needle, the 1st date was an easy and comfortable chemistry, not the electrifying kind of chemistry, and only got better with each date. I was incredibly attracted to him from the very beginning, too. It was just a different type of chemistry... perhaps calmer? Not as eager and frantic. In hindsight, I'm pretty sure it was because he was relationship-minded and not just wanting a hookup. It seemed my previous intense chemistry dates were really looking only for hookups, although they didn't admit it. (I was looking for a relationship.)
I have kind of the opposite problem. All of my relationships have been with men who I didn't feel initial "chemistry/spark/whatever" with. Nice guys, basically. But after a few months invariably I have found that they treat me worse than previous (or in some cases future) partners, make no effort, do not help with things, etc. Is there any solution for this? I genuinely never see my situation addressed whereas there is always loads of help for women who are more attracted to "bad boys".
2. BHDM is great for ruling out truly toxic men but I don’t feel it’s necessarily great for ruling out avoidants. Many people with avoidant attachment styles are highly ethical . They have good character. It can take a lot of time to see it because it’s in context of a dynamic. So it may not rear its head until you’re actually living with a person or in a very serious committed relationship. They’re responding to your attachment style.
Not sure about this. My ex-husband, for example, was definitely not avoidant- if anything more anxious. And I am in therapy and confirmed I do not have anxious attachment. It is more things like: with ex-husband, with me, he would make absolutely the bare minimum of effort, learned incompetence re household tasks etc. With his second wife, not only did they have a much nicer wedding, but he was helpful, respectful and did more in house. Now, perhaps he just learned from past experience, but then how on earth do I find a man who has learned to be decent from someone else rather than me always finding the ones who do not value me?
I'm sorry you had this experience. A few things to consider. BHDM is strictly a way to vet people on dating apps and possibly in the early stages of dating. it is not a panacea. A million things make a person and a relationship and we are all really complex. Critical discourse analysis is not going to be able to answer to all of that. It simply gives a head start. You also have no true idea what is happening in your ex-husband's current marriage--he may appear more "helpful" and committed and valuing her more but that may not be the actual lived reality. Maybe it comes out in different ways or maybe he did just grow up. I also have learned it's not that we "attract" the incompetent ones, its that we tolerate the behaviour when other women don't.
I have a thought, not necessarily a solution, but I'll put it out here in case it's helpful. In general, I think we, as women, are socialized to celebrate the BARE MINIMUM of effort, decency, and consideration from men as goodness, niceness, etc. So, they only have to put in a modicum of effort early on and they are seen as great guys. Then, when they cease putting in effort (because they feel entitled to women's labor, love, affection, sexuality, empathy, etc. and no longer feel any need to reciprocate) women are left wondering where the "nice" guy they started dating went. We could all benefit from raising the bar SIGNIFICANTLY for what we will consider good behavior, effort, kindness, honesty, and evidence of partner potential from men. I am a therapist and I am not kidding when I tell you that women will celebrate the most minor and basic things as signs of their male partners' love and affection - bringing them a cup of coffee, "supporting" their career (by letting them have it I guess, as there is no other evidence of support that I can see), or simply believing them when they said a man at a social gathering was being sexual in a way that made them uncomfortable. These things are all fine, but they are the absolute basement floor of support that we would expect from a friend, not something to be celebrated when done by a male partner or spouse of years or decades.
I (obviously) don't know you or your dating history in detail, but it might be worth considering if you are giving men too much credit for being "nice" when they put in a minimum of effort in the early days, weeks, and months of a relationship. And even if they seem great at first, as soon as they stop making effort, helping, and being kind then that is information about them and a sign to run for the hills. Don't put in any effort wondering what happened, don't let them draw down for years and years on the meager credit that they accrued in the beginning by being bare-bones decent, just accept that they are showing you who they are and the level of effort that they will put into caring for you and end it.
This is such an excellent question!!! Nice Guys and Good Boys have their own set of avoidant challenges. I’m married to a Good Boy who was a needle for the first two years we dated, and then after we got married we’ve had to navigate all kinds of challenges. Thankfully he puts in the work.
I'm not sure what your question is. Are you asking how to weed out no-chemistry guys? Or how to weed out fake nice guys? I'm not sure what problem you've identified in your relationships.
OK, I would suggest you maybe consider re-reading as others seem to have understood perfectly well. I don't have a lot of time to explain further at the moment, nor really the inclination since I have had helpful answers to think about already. Thanks for your contribution though!
When i first met my needle i wasn't sure but he was. Quietly. He planned things. But never with any pressure. Our first trip away I booked a separate room. With pre agreed consent, we canoodled a bit and then he went to his room. He assured me before he left that he was really attracted to me but he understood my boundary. It was a huge deal for me to have that boundary met and it made me feel safe. He sent me six teaspoons after the first time he visited my home. I'd wound up without any, somehow, (I am very good at losing things), and a pack arrived via Amazon. I felt seen and cared for. I'm nervous of love bombers and find 'romantic' gifts difficult too. Recently I was building shelves and he sent me a jig saw and a work bench.
None of of this is stuff I'd have ever thought was part of true love but I find it is. I'm in my 60s and he's a little older, and neither of us wants to live with someone but we are a planning a life lived alongside each other. I'd found bhdm just before I found him and I did apply that heuristic early on. He's a keeper.
I’m not sure if I read a comment or if this question originated with me. “Would I trust him to take care of my dog/cat/pet?” Any inkling of no or uncertainty or concern is an automatic “not this man”!
My chemistry, too, developed slowly. He was a friend, not dating material. I wasn’t attracted to him ‘in that way’ but liked hanging out with him. We had interesting conversations and he never made me feel uncomfortable. Then one evening as we hugged goodbye, I got a ‘zing’ of sexual attraction. I was so surprised! We developed it slowly from there. We have been together for 26 years. Our love story made it into the NYT Modern Love column last August!
In my last relationship, I wasn’t attracted to my partner, but I decided that it didn’t matter because he seemed like a nice guy. I followed the advice of all the well-meaning experts on this and assumed that attraction might develop over time. Attraction didn’t develop, but attachment did. My ex-partner was not overtly toxic or angry and did not have any of the obvious red flags in the beginning. He didn’t have an “edge” either. I found him to be rather dull, but I assumed that was just my insecure attachment style. The problem turned out to be that he didn’t treat me like a person. He treated me like an accessory in his life. He did not value me specifically. He also assumed that his life priorities would become my own. It wasn’t that he was demanding. It was just completely…normal. He was the main character, and this was the normal state of things for him. It took me almost a year to recognize this, and a big factor that impeded my recognition was friends telling me what a great and nice guy he was, and that I should give him a chance. I thought there was something wrong with me for thinking there was something off. I thought I was crazy. Had I trusted my gut, I would have ended the relationship sooner. By the time it did end, I was devastated for having become attached to someone who always put himself first. I still feel embarrassed and humiliated for giving him a chance. All of this is to say that this advice regarding chemistry can backfire. Becoming attached to a stylized “nice” guy who you’re not attracted to but whom you believe you should like because everyone around you is telling you how great he is can sometimes get in the way of discernment and intuition. Sometimes you can answer c) because you believe you should like someone.
I commented at length about this in another thread above, but I think this is a great example of where men are given WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT for being basically decent humans/not total assholes. They are seen as a real catch, and their low-key misogyny and self-centeredness flies under the radar because at least they don't cheat on you, yell at you, ridicule you. Woo hoo! Give that man a gold star. Anyway, sarcasm aside, you are so right there is a difference between someone valuing and desiring you specifically vs. just as a "nice girl" to fill a hole in their "nice" life. Well said.
oof. I’m sorry that you went through that. I have to sit and pay attention to how my body feels because yeah, my brain (and other people) can try to reason me into things that aren’t for me.
I hope you are able to feel and trust yourself now!
Jenny, you nailed it with the A, B, and C answers to the question, “How do I really feel about him?” Such a simple way to test how we are feeling about someone and so revealing too!
What if your response to the question is A? This is me on 95% of the dates I go on. I've been applying BHDM for over a year and haven't gone on a date with a bad man/asshole since, I've also done tons of work deprogramming feeling spark/chemistry because of anxiety (years of therapies of all modalities). I'll often convince myself to go on a second and third date with a perfectly nice guy and by Date 3, be wondering why I didn't trust my instinct after Date 1. Am I missing something?
Something I noticed in me, that could be a useful heuristic too, is that when I'm going to meet my partner, I genuinely feel happy and look forward to see him. Even after a long day at work, or when I'm tired after travelling. With my ex, returning from a long day at work, my pace would slow down the closer to our place I got and I'd brace myself before getting in.
Yes, I notice this too. I am introverted and my best friends are the ones for whom I don't need to work up any energy to hang out with them, like I do for most people (even those I like!). It's like this for me with my guy, too; it's not draining at all even when I am "peopled out."
exactly, same
I used to feel the same on the drive home from work.....dread....I was married to a functioning alcoholic & never knew what lay in store for me once I got home.
That’s a really great point. In the early years of my marriage, I’d hear my ex’s key in the door and feel this rush I called butterflies, to others and to myself. Looking back, it wasn’t butterflies at all. It was nervousness, bracing to read his mood so I could adjust mine and keep things smooth.
By the end, it was worse. Turning onto our street, my heart would sink if his car was in the driveway. On the days it wasn’t there, I felt relief, knowing I’d have some time to myself. So yes, that’s a really great question to sit with.
Yes, I agree.
I used to feel the same on the drive home from work.....dread....I was married to a functioning alcoholic & never knew what lay in store for me once I got home.
Love your analysis -- but a first date at the dump is a spectacular Needle story.
💯 agree!
Totally epic!!
I was getting confused distinguishing between chemistry and anxiety. After a 27 yr marriage that ended with trauma, 5 years of therapy and a 5 month solo RV roadtrip that fulfilled a promise and gave me so much joy and confidence I thought I was ready. I had not dated since I was 22yo and 60 was around the corner. Plus dating was now with apps!!
Two short relationships (6 months each) that started with great conversations and what I felt, amazing chemistry ended up actually being huge anxiety filled months. The joy and confidence I had gained was slipping away. I am reading the book and learning so much. Jennie’s question is exactly what I needed. If I feel any twinges of anxiety, walking away! I’m looking for compatibility and peace, chemistry will follow. Thank you so much!!!
I'm one of the people always wanting the answer to this question. Thanks. I think I let a needle get away a year ago. But someone else's.
That was your "practice needle." Now you're ready to find your forever needle 🪡🥰
Love that - practice needle!
(because I thought I found a needle but five months in, he said there was something missing…)
As someone who NEVER feels instant chemistry, I have trouble understanding this....but the question makes sense to me!! I NEVER feel attracted to people until I get to know them, the hardest part is finding people who have the patience to let me get there. But i love the first date at the dump to help with the carpet! That is a huge green flag along with the PATIENCE exhibited!
I think it's not only about instant chemistry (although that is often an issue), it's also about mentally believing unless someone has some "cool stuff" going on, they are going to be boring, and not even letting someone like that into our lives. At least for me that has always been an issue in the past. Not dating now.
Im not actively dating right now either...the thing is is that I do get bored so quickly with the small talk, part, but i know that bores me....in the beginning, they all seem a little boring to me, i seriously have to have a connection to someone to find them attractive.
Xena, I relate to this. I don’t really feel deep attraction until I see a pattern of consistency and genuine intention. After trust has been built my feelings grow but men are often impatient. I did find my needle who continually proved himself by showing me a warm, empathetic, intentional demeanor over time.
That gives me some hope ❤️ so many are way too impatient so I never even get to see if I might be able to like them....and if they are like that, I instantly know it wont work. Im so happy for you! ❤️
Isn't it wonderful, post-BHDM, to now realize that fact instantaneously? It saves so much time and it's so freeing, in contrast to feeling rejected because the guy was ready to move on.
Before this and seeing so many stories and comments from others, I would just have thought i was just broken, unlovable or rejected. But now I see that these are just not the right type of men for me. I just hope the more patient one is out there somewhere. If hes not, im okay this way too 😁
What a healthy and self-affirming statement, to be happy anyway, with or without a partner. ❤️
I never feel quick chemistry either, so this whole genre of relationship advice is perplexing to me. But the 3 possible responses in the post make sense to me, as do Logan Ury’s ‘Post Date 8.’ There are so many perfectly fine men that my difficulty is knowing when to trust that the meh is never getting less meh and so far ‘am I curious, do I want to learn more’ is my best guide.
I’m ENM, tho. I just wrote a user guide for the Haystack book for people like me who have been happily in years long non-serious relationships as well as happy long term serious and happy short term.
This came up in another post, about making time for Success Stories, and making time for reading Success Stories, and making time for other things in life that are successes rather than rushing onto the next thing you are working on... it is important to slow down and FEEL what the good things FEEL like. If you never mindfully pay attention to the relaxation and peace of enjoying listening to the birds, or the heart-expanding joy of feeling proud of an accomplishment, then you will not know to LOOK for that, and to SEEK IT OUT. You will not realize what it means when it's happening to you in other settings. So attach great meaning to moments of quiet peace and joy -- finding those and being able to rest in those moments are of utmost importance, the top of the to-do list.
Especially when you realize that you can feel and experience those without sharing them. I think all of us who have all their lives thought they can only be happy with someone with "an edge" (or more than one) probably also found it very hard to have these experiences, being proud, enjoying a calm moment, experiencing an amazing view in nature, eating something delicious, hearing a piece of moving music for the first time, reading a great book, and so on, by ourselves and for ourselves. The meaning came from sharing those experiences or having the person we admired (for their edge :o() agreeing. This takes time and patience but when you get there...it's bliss.
What an essential layer of this, appreciate this important perspective on it.
I continue to ask myself whether what I'm looking for doesn't exist - success stories like this one confirm: these needles do truly exist. Let's ask for more! This story gives me hope
I spent years searching for instant chemistry and it alone propelled me through several years of dating. In hindsight, it was the definitely the wrong tactic. Dating was exhausting, frustrating, and disappointing. Seven years into dating without success, I started seeing instant and intense chemistry as a red flag. Less than a year later I met my needle, who I'm still happily with 3 years later. It's the healthiest, happiest, most secure and stable relationship I've had in my life (and I'm 55!). Quick chemistry = bad
I am going to remember that, thank you. Quick chemistry=bad.
I mean, surely there are times when there is immediate chemistry with someone great? It’s just not the only way to get to something good. For the other poster, she realized she had a pattern, which is smart and self-aware, but may not be 100% true for everyone.
It was definitely true for me. None of the men I had instant chemistry with panned out for whatever reason. They ghosted, made excuses, or the 2nd dates were downers. With my needle, the 1st date was an easy and comfortable chemistry, not the electrifying kind of chemistry, and only got better with each date. I was incredibly attracted to him from the very beginning, too. It was just a different type of chemistry... perhaps calmer? Not as eager and frantic. In hindsight, I'm pretty sure it was because he was relationship-minded and not just wanting a hookup. It seemed my previous intense chemistry dates were really looking only for hookups, although they didn't admit it. (I was looking for a relationship.)
I have kind of the opposite problem. All of my relationships have been with men who I didn't feel initial "chemistry/spark/whatever" with. Nice guys, basically. But after a few months invariably I have found that they treat me worse than previous (or in some cases future) partners, make no effort, do not help with things, etc. Is there any solution for this? I genuinely never see my situation addressed whereas there is always loads of help for women who are more attracted to "bad boys".
1, BHDM is rule out not rule in.
2. BHDM is great for ruling out truly toxic men but I don’t feel it’s necessarily great for ruling out avoidants. Many people with avoidant attachment styles are highly ethical . They have good character. It can take a lot of time to see it because it’s in context of a dynamic. So it may not rear its head until you’re actually living with a person or in a very serious committed relationship. They’re responding to your attachment style.
Not sure about this. My ex-husband, for example, was definitely not avoidant- if anything more anxious. And I am in therapy and confirmed I do not have anxious attachment. It is more things like: with ex-husband, with me, he would make absolutely the bare minimum of effort, learned incompetence re household tasks etc. With his second wife, not only did they have a much nicer wedding, but he was helpful, respectful and did more in house. Now, perhaps he just learned from past experience, but then how on earth do I find a man who has learned to be decent from someone else rather than me always finding the ones who do not value me?
I'm sorry you had this experience. A few things to consider. BHDM is strictly a way to vet people on dating apps and possibly in the early stages of dating. it is not a panacea. A million things make a person and a relationship and we are all really complex. Critical discourse analysis is not going to be able to answer to all of that. It simply gives a head start. You also have no true idea what is happening in your ex-husband's current marriage--he may appear more "helpful" and committed and valuing her more but that may not be the actual lived reality. Maybe it comes out in different ways or maybe he did just grow up. I also have learned it's not that we "attract" the incompetent ones, its that we tolerate the behaviour when other women don't.
I have a thought, not necessarily a solution, but I'll put it out here in case it's helpful. In general, I think we, as women, are socialized to celebrate the BARE MINIMUM of effort, decency, and consideration from men as goodness, niceness, etc. So, they only have to put in a modicum of effort early on and they are seen as great guys. Then, when they cease putting in effort (because they feel entitled to women's labor, love, affection, sexuality, empathy, etc. and no longer feel any need to reciprocate) women are left wondering where the "nice" guy they started dating went. We could all benefit from raising the bar SIGNIFICANTLY for what we will consider good behavior, effort, kindness, honesty, and evidence of partner potential from men. I am a therapist and I am not kidding when I tell you that women will celebrate the most minor and basic things as signs of their male partners' love and affection - bringing them a cup of coffee, "supporting" their career (by letting them have it I guess, as there is no other evidence of support that I can see), or simply believing them when they said a man at a social gathering was being sexual in a way that made them uncomfortable. These things are all fine, but they are the absolute basement floor of support that we would expect from a friend, not something to be celebrated when done by a male partner or spouse of years or decades.
I (obviously) don't know you or your dating history in detail, but it might be worth considering if you are giving men too much credit for being "nice" when they put in a minimum of effort in the early days, weeks, and months of a relationship. And even if they seem great at first, as soon as they stop making effort, helping, and being kind then that is information about them and a sign to run for the hills. Don't put in any effort wondering what happened, don't let them draw down for years and years on the meager credit that they accrued in the beginning by being bare-bones decent, just accept that they are showing you who they are and the level of effort that they will put into caring for you and end it.
YES!!!!!! Spot on.
SO important, and beautifully expressed!
Very helpful, thanks!
Whoa. Thank you for that. Your insight is appreciated!
This is such an excellent question!!! Nice Guys and Good Boys have their own set of avoidant challenges. I’m married to a Good Boy who was a needle for the first two years we dated, and then after we got married we’ve had to navigate all kinds of challenges. Thankfully he puts in the work.
I'm not sure what your question is. Are you asking how to weed out no-chemistry guys? Or how to weed out fake nice guys? I'm not sure what problem you've identified in your relationships.
OK, I would suggest you maybe consider re-reading as others seem to have understood perfectly well. I don't have a lot of time to explain further at the moment, nor really the inclination since I have had helpful answers to think about already. Thanks for your contribution though!
When i first met my needle i wasn't sure but he was. Quietly. He planned things. But never with any pressure. Our first trip away I booked a separate room. With pre agreed consent, we canoodled a bit and then he went to his room. He assured me before he left that he was really attracted to me but he understood my boundary. It was a huge deal for me to have that boundary met and it made me feel safe. He sent me six teaspoons after the first time he visited my home. I'd wound up without any, somehow, (I am very good at losing things), and a pack arrived via Amazon. I felt seen and cared for. I'm nervous of love bombers and find 'romantic' gifts difficult too. Recently I was building shelves and he sent me a jig saw and a work bench.
None of of this is stuff I'd have ever thought was part of true love but I find it is. I'm in my 60s and he's a little older, and neither of us wants to live with someone but we are a planning a life lived alongside each other. I'd found bhdm just before I found him and I did apply that heuristic early on. He's a keeper.
I’m not sure if I read a comment or if this question originated with me. “Would I trust him to take care of my dog/cat/pet?” Any inkling of no or uncertainty or concern is an automatic “not this man”!
My chemistry, too, developed slowly. He was a friend, not dating material. I wasn’t attracted to him ‘in that way’ but liked hanging out with him. We had interesting conversations and he never made me feel uncomfortable. Then one evening as we hugged goodbye, I got a ‘zing’ of sexual attraction. I was so surprised! We developed it slowly from there. We have been together for 26 years. Our love story made it into the NYT Modern Love column last August!
In my last relationship, I wasn’t attracted to my partner, but I decided that it didn’t matter because he seemed like a nice guy. I followed the advice of all the well-meaning experts on this and assumed that attraction might develop over time. Attraction didn’t develop, but attachment did. My ex-partner was not overtly toxic or angry and did not have any of the obvious red flags in the beginning. He didn’t have an “edge” either. I found him to be rather dull, but I assumed that was just my insecure attachment style. The problem turned out to be that he didn’t treat me like a person. He treated me like an accessory in his life. He did not value me specifically. He also assumed that his life priorities would become my own. It wasn’t that he was demanding. It was just completely…normal. He was the main character, and this was the normal state of things for him. It took me almost a year to recognize this, and a big factor that impeded my recognition was friends telling me what a great and nice guy he was, and that I should give him a chance. I thought there was something wrong with me for thinking there was something off. I thought I was crazy. Had I trusted my gut, I would have ended the relationship sooner. By the time it did end, I was devastated for having become attached to someone who always put himself first. I still feel embarrassed and humiliated for giving him a chance. All of this is to say that this advice regarding chemistry can backfire. Becoming attached to a stylized “nice” guy who you’re not attracted to but whom you believe you should like because everyone around you is telling you how great he is can sometimes get in the way of discernment and intuition. Sometimes you can answer c) because you believe you should like someone.
I commented at length about this in another thread above, but I think this is a great example of where men are given WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT for being basically decent humans/not total assholes. They are seen as a real catch, and their low-key misogyny and self-centeredness flies under the radar because at least they don't cheat on you, yell at you, ridicule you. Woo hoo! Give that man a gold star. Anyway, sarcasm aside, you are so right there is a difference between someone valuing and desiring you specifically vs. just as a "nice girl" to fill a hole in their "nice" life. Well said.
oof. I’m sorry that you went through that. I have to sit and pay attention to how my body feels because yeah, my brain (and other people) can try to reason me into things that aren’t for me.
I hope you are able to feel and trust yourself now!
I love this.
Jenny, you nailed it with the A, B, and C answers to the question, “How do I really feel about him?” Such a simple way to test how we are feeling about someone and so revealing too!
What if your response to the question is A? This is me on 95% of the dates I go on. I've been applying BHDM for over a year and haven't gone on a date with a bad man/asshole since, I've also done tons of work deprogramming feeling spark/chemistry because of anxiety (years of therapies of all modalities). I'll often convince myself to go on a second and third date with a perfectly nice guy and by Date 3, be wondering why I didn't trust my instinct after Date 1. Am I missing something?
In the piece, Jennie writes :"If your answer is a or b, it’s probably not going anywhere. "
If there isn’t anything about the guy that draws you in and makes you want to talk to him more, it’s not c).
He could be a solid needle, just not your needle.