I have read many of these books - most I agree are fantastic. Or at least thought provoking.
I would add The Calamity Club by Katherine Stockett. (She also wrote The Help. If you can, listen to the audiobook version. The narrators are phenomenal. )
Well isn't that serendipitous to see Elizabeth Strout on your list of favorite authors after hearing her name for the first time this morning. She was interviewed on Death Sex & Money podcast & was delightful, relatable and intriguing. Thought hmmm maybe I should read some of her stuff. A few hours later... your list. Kismet. Thank you for sharing.
I have to say I have a serious problem with Chelsea Handler. She is an open Zionist and has been known to fetishize black men. If you Google ‘A long and elaborate history of Chelsea Handler's racism’ a post that has not been scrubbed on lipstick alley pops up. I feel like she has revamped her problematic history with a good PR team and chose topics to seem more progressive.
I struggle with Zionism at this day and age when we see a live genocide unfolding on our screens.
Kammy3 - You simply could have stated you don’t agree with her politics, belief systems, public opinion or influence, etc. Using the platform of Zionism and Zionist as a reason why you dislike/hate a person is perpetuating a derogatory stereotype about Jewish people, religious or secular and everywhere in between. I know for a fact that this has been a theme for most minorities. I don’t know all of the derogatory language that has been used against POC over the decades, but I’m sure I’ve accidentally used some of it before knowing more or better.
So, as a Jewish woman, I ask you not to give lip service to a racist construct, and you go on long rants defending your right to say such things, only proves my point. Furthermore, you giving me a history lesson on my own people is ridiculous. I’m sure it’s hard to believe, but I happen to believe in Zionism and be Pro-Palestine.
Jennie, I’m so sorry this has taken up space on your phenomenal book list! 🩵
Kammy3 - I appreciate your thoughtful response, however, I feel that you are misinformed.
Zionism is the ideology that Jewish people have the right to their ancestral homeland, and that we can defend ourselves in that place. Israel is the only Jewish country and is the size of New Jersey. There are 57 Muslim countries in the world where most Jews have been either killed or removed. However, there are many Arabs /Muslims and Christians who live and work in Israel- about 20% of the population - who can vote, run for office, and serve in the military. Calling Israel an ethnostate is wrong. Yes, as a Jewish person I may have an easier time getting citizenship there. But then I had an easier time getting my Italian citizenship due to my great grandfather than someone without that genealogy. Another thing to point out about this ethnostate thing is that while Jews are required to do some military service, Muslim and Arab Christians are exempt, yet there are many who chose to serve.
As for the deaths in Gaza, yes it is horrible. No one wants peace more than Jews. If Israel stops what happens? Hamas attacks again. If Hamas stops what happens? Peace. The slogan should be “free Palestine from Hamas”. The whole “genocide” accusation started in October 8, before Israel had even begun to launch a military response. If Hamas cared about the lives of its people, why do they not let them into the tunnels when Israel drops leaflets telling them they are about to strike an area? (Btw, the Allies did not do anything like that for German citizens) Why do they operate below schools and hospitals? If Israel wanted to annihilate the Palestinians, they could have done what Iran did and kill 3,000-20,000 (estimates vary widely) people in just days. It’s a war unlike any other, but the amount of misinformation being sent out, funded by Qatar mostly, to delegitimize Israel is another front to it. I encourage you do look a little deeper.
Perhaps Chelsea Handler is problematic for you regarding her treatment of Black men. I don’t know anything about that. However, her identifying as Jewish and a Zionist is where you lost me. Saying you are against racism, but then deny the entire Jewish people a right to their own country - one small piece of land in the Middle East that they bought back from Arabs living there and turned back into a country seems incredibly racist to me.
Please don’t turn a great list into some sort of antisemitic political posturing. And maybe figure out what the words Zionism and genocide really mean.
As a Jewish woman, I kindly ask that you not make broad assumptions, generalizations, and stereotypes for anyone who is a “Zionist”. It’s incredibly racist if you do not know and understand the intricacies of what and who a Zionist may be.
I want to clarify that I’m not making assumptions about anyone here, nor am I interested in turning this into a political debate. Chelsea Handler has publicly identified herself as a Zionist, so I’m referring to a term she herself uses and to her own publicly documented history. Modern political Zionism has a documented history going back to the late 19th century and if someone publicly chooses to identify with a political ideology, I do think there is an onus on that person to understand its history, what it has advocated and what they mean when adopting that label.
My concern with Chelsea Handler also isn’t limited to that. I’m uncomfortable with past comments and behavior of hers that I believe have objectified or fetishized Black men, as well as other aspects of her public history. As a POC, that history is relevant to me when considering her as someone whose work is being recommended in an inclusive feminist space.
Inclusivity matters deeply to me in all its forms, not only when it comes to gender. My feminism cannot stop at advocating for women who look like me, live where I live, or belong to a particular ethnicity or nationality. It also means caring about women and children who are being displaced, bombed, killed or denied equal rights. I cannot separate women’s rights from human rights.
That is also why I am deeply uncomfortable with ethnonationalism and with political systems that privilege one ethnic group over another. Historical systems such as Jim Crow in the United States and apartheid in South Africa were not identical, but they are reminders of why racial or ethnic hierarchy should concern all of us. Nelson Mandela and the ANC were themselves branded as terrorists for many years while fighting apartheid. History should make us cautious about assuming that a movement challenging an established system of inequality is illegitimate simply because it is described that way at the time.
I also don’t think respectfully raising this concern “ruins” a list or a discussion. One of the things I value about feminist spaces like this is that women are encouraged to trust our perceptions, find our voices and speak honestly even when patriarchal systems have historically encouraged us to stay agreeable or silent. I cannot apply that principle only to patriarchy. I have to apply it consistently when I encounter racism, ethnonationalism, segregation or other systems of oppression as well.
I understand that people here may strongly disagree with me and that’s okay. I’m not attacking anyone in this group, making assumptions about anyone’s beliefs, or asking anyone else to adopt mine. I’m simply explaining why this particular recommendation makes me uncomfortable and why, in a feminist space that values equality and inclusivity, I hope there is room to express that concern respectfully. I don’t intend to debate this further; I simply wanted my perspective to be part of the discussion.
"If someone publicly chooses to identify with a political ideology, I do think there is an onus on that person to understand its history, what it has advocated and what they mean when adopting that label." Zionism as a concept and belief has existed for centuries throughout the diaspora as the desire to return to the Jewish homeland, and most of today's Jews are Zionists. Perhaps there should be an onus on you to understand the entire history of Judaism and the land of Israel before you go talking about a highly marginalized people. The "ethnonationalism" of Israel is nothing like Jim Crow or South African apartheid, and comparing Israel to those highly bigoted times just shows your own biases and bigotry. If you really care about women and children being killed, did you speak up about October 7th, the 1200+ innocent people killed then, all the women and girls who were SA'd, or the 250+ innocent people kidnapped and the SA experienced by people of all genders during their capitivity by Hamas terrorists?
You did ruin this list by inserting your bigotry and false information. Jews are already excluded from so many places and you just tried to exclude us here. If you really valued equality and inclusivity, you would not have done that or continued in the face of Jewish women speaking up about the harm you are causing. You don't have to "debate further" or respond to me, I'm speaking up more to show others that antisemitism is not acceptable anywhere.
I can’t recommend highly enough Thomas Hardy’s 1874 novel “Far from the Madding Crowd.” I’ve long felt that it’s the first novel written in English to feature a truly MODERN female main character. Bathsheba Everdene owns her own farm and extended land, bosses the farm workers, regularly goes out and about alone, deals with her own money, openly expresses opinions and skepticism and hauteur and impatience, rejects different men who express an interest and at one point, falls for the ONE GUY who is bristling with red flags. She figures things out. I love her strength and smarts and independence and even her blind spots.
OMG! Seeing Jane Eyre makes me want to talk about Rochester SO BADLY because the man is practically a case study in grooming, and I think Jane is seriously trauma-bonded.
He’s a red flag masterclass. Disciplinary directive (sit here, talk to me, answer me, wear what I buy you). I’m the prize (you should feel lucky I chose you). Conditional decency (sweet when she’s close, manipulative and explosive when she pushes back). Test & apologize (the fortune teller costume / Blanche). It’s all there!
Plus the withheld truth about being married. He's so manipulative. So gross.
It doesn't matter how much she wants to be on level ground with him; he's in control until she gets her inheritance and he loses his sight and strength. She's a poor, isolated employee constantly excusing his behavior and trying to heal his suffering with her enormous love. Just ew ew ew. (Been there.)
The ending is horrifying. A marvelous but exhausted, trauma-bonded woman rationalizes predatory behavior and signs up to be a trad wife. Gives me the ick.
Can we start a monthly book club to discuss and further enhance our rhetorical discourse analysis skills? I’ve been binging Adriana Trigiani books and the Italian patriarchy imbedded in these stories is infuriating!
My daughter is 10, and I'd like to introduce her to some books that will expand her understanding and empathy. She's a budding feminist and a proponent of women's rights, and most of her information comes from her reading.
Sometimes kids books simplify concepts too much, or turn them into slogans. She needs better quality information.
Thank you! Love your expertise and willingness to share.
I'm a fan of "crazy woman in the attic" novels, aka the female perspective. I've used these in my women's studies course to get away from the make gaze:
The Red Tent
Wide Sargasso Sea
Ahab's Wife (Naslund)
Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister (or Wicked, but only the book, never the movies)
I’m honored my novel The Talking Bone is on this list! Thank you, Jennie. It feels good to have the feminist framing of the story recognized.
I have read many of these books - most I agree are fantastic. Or at least thought provoking.
I would add The Calamity Club by Katherine Stockett. (She also wrote The Help. If you can, listen to the audiobook version. The narrators are phenomenal. )
Thank you! I just put a hold on The Calamity Club on my Libby app!
Truly an amazing story. I loved it on so many levels.
I love several of these authors! Oh this is wonderful, definitely saving this. Thank you for taking the time, Jennie!!
I have a Libby app tag named "Jennie recs".
🥹 Aww, thank you!
Well isn't that serendipitous to see Elizabeth Strout on your list of favorite authors after hearing her name for the first time this morning. She was interviewed on Death Sex & Money podcast & was delightful, relatable and intriguing. Thought hmmm maybe I should read some of her stuff. A few hours later... your list. Kismet. Thank you for sharing.
Love this list! I've definitely enjoyed some of them. Thanks for sharing!
I have to say I have a serious problem with Chelsea Handler. She is an open Zionist and has been known to fetishize black men. If you Google ‘A long and elaborate history of Chelsea Handler's racism’ a post that has not been scrubbed on lipstick alley pops up. I feel like she has revamped her problematic history with a good PR team and chose topics to seem more progressive.
I struggle with Zionism at this day and age when we see a live genocide unfolding on our screens.
Kammy3 - You simply could have stated you don’t agree with her politics, belief systems, public opinion or influence, etc. Using the platform of Zionism and Zionist as a reason why you dislike/hate a person is perpetuating a derogatory stereotype about Jewish people, religious or secular and everywhere in between. I know for a fact that this has been a theme for most minorities. I don’t know all of the derogatory language that has been used against POC over the decades, but I’m sure I’ve accidentally used some of it before knowing more or better.
So, as a Jewish woman, I ask you not to give lip service to a racist construct, and you go on long rants defending your right to say such things, only proves my point. Furthermore, you giving me a history lesson on my own people is ridiculous. I’m sure it’s hard to believe, but I happen to believe in Zionism and be Pro-Palestine.
Jennie, I’m so sorry this has taken up space on your phenomenal book list! 🩵
Kammy3 - I appreciate your thoughtful response, however, I feel that you are misinformed.
Zionism is the ideology that Jewish people have the right to their ancestral homeland, and that we can defend ourselves in that place. Israel is the only Jewish country and is the size of New Jersey. There are 57 Muslim countries in the world where most Jews have been either killed or removed. However, there are many Arabs /Muslims and Christians who live and work in Israel- about 20% of the population - who can vote, run for office, and serve in the military. Calling Israel an ethnostate is wrong. Yes, as a Jewish person I may have an easier time getting citizenship there. But then I had an easier time getting my Italian citizenship due to my great grandfather than someone without that genealogy. Another thing to point out about this ethnostate thing is that while Jews are required to do some military service, Muslim and Arab Christians are exempt, yet there are many who chose to serve.
As for the deaths in Gaza, yes it is horrible. No one wants peace more than Jews. If Israel stops what happens? Hamas attacks again. If Hamas stops what happens? Peace. The slogan should be “free Palestine from Hamas”. The whole “genocide” accusation started in October 8, before Israel had even begun to launch a military response. If Hamas cared about the lives of its people, why do they not let them into the tunnels when Israel drops leaflets telling them they are about to strike an area? (Btw, the Allies did not do anything like that for German citizens) Why do they operate below schools and hospitals? If Israel wanted to annihilate the Palestinians, they could have done what Iran did and kill 3,000-20,000 (estimates vary widely) people in just days. It’s a war unlike any other, but the amount of misinformation being sent out, funded by Qatar mostly, to delegitimize Israel is another front to it. I encourage you do look a little deeper.
Perhaps Chelsea Handler is problematic for you regarding her treatment of Black men. I don’t know anything about that. However, her identifying as Jewish and a Zionist is where you lost me. Saying you are against racism, but then deny the entire Jewish people a right to their own country - one small piece of land in the Middle East that they bought back from Arabs living there and turned back into a country seems incredibly racist to me.
Please don’t turn a great list into some sort of antisemitic political posturing. And maybe figure out what the words Zionism and genocide really mean.
Please see above my reply to Amanda which includes why I don’t think I am ruining anything here
Thank you, BlackCat! ❤️
As a Jewish woman, I kindly ask that you not make broad assumptions, generalizations, and stereotypes for anyone who is a “Zionist”. It’s incredibly racist if you do not know and understand the intricacies of what and who a Zionist may be.
I want to clarify that I’m not making assumptions about anyone here, nor am I interested in turning this into a political debate. Chelsea Handler has publicly identified herself as a Zionist, so I’m referring to a term she herself uses and to her own publicly documented history. Modern political Zionism has a documented history going back to the late 19th century and if someone publicly chooses to identify with a political ideology, I do think there is an onus on that person to understand its history, what it has advocated and what they mean when adopting that label.
My concern with Chelsea Handler also isn’t limited to that. I’m uncomfortable with past comments and behavior of hers that I believe have objectified or fetishized Black men, as well as other aspects of her public history. As a POC, that history is relevant to me when considering her as someone whose work is being recommended in an inclusive feminist space.
Inclusivity matters deeply to me in all its forms, not only when it comes to gender. My feminism cannot stop at advocating for women who look like me, live where I live, or belong to a particular ethnicity or nationality. It also means caring about women and children who are being displaced, bombed, killed or denied equal rights. I cannot separate women’s rights from human rights.
That is also why I am deeply uncomfortable with ethnonationalism and with political systems that privilege one ethnic group over another. Historical systems such as Jim Crow in the United States and apartheid in South Africa were not identical, but they are reminders of why racial or ethnic hierarchy should concern all of us. Nelson Mandela and the ANC were themselves branded as terrorists for many years while fighting apartheid. History should make us cautious about assuming that a movement challenging an established system of inequality is illegitimate simply because it is described that way at the time.
I also don’t think respectfully raising this concern “ruins” a list or a discussion. One of the things I value about feminist spaces like this is that women are encouraged to trust our perceptions, find our voices and speak honestly even when patriarchal systems have historically encouraged us to stay agreeable or silent. I cannot apply that principle only to patriarchy. I have to apply it consistently when I encounter racism, ethnonationalism, segregation or other systems of oppression as well.
I understand that people here may strongly disagree with me and that’s okay. I’m not attacking anyone in this group, making assumptions about anyone’s beliefs, or asking anyone else to adopt mine. I’m simply explaining why this particular recommendation makes me uncomfortable and why, in a feminist space that values equality and inclusivity, I hope there is room to express that concern respectfully. I don’t intend to debate this further; I simply wanted my perspective to be part of the discussion.
"If someone publicly chooses to identify with a political ideology, I do think there is an onus on that person to understand its history, what it has advocated and what they mean when adopting that label." Zionism as a concept and belief has existed for centuries throughout the diaspora as the desire to return to the Jewish homeland, and most of today's Jews are Zionists. Perhaps there should be an onus on you to understand the entire history of Judaism and the land of Israel before you go talking about a highly marginalized people. The "ethnonationalism" of Israel is nothing like Jim Crow or South African apartheid, and comparing Israel to those highly bigoted times just shows your own biases and bigotry. If you really care about women and children being killed, did you speak up about October 7th, the 1200+ innocent people killed then, all the women and girls who were SA'd, or the 250+ innocent people kidnapped and the SA experienced by people of all genders during their capitivity by Hamas terrorists?
You did ruin this list by inserting your bigotry and false information. Jews are already excluded from so many places and you just tried to exclude us here. If you really valued equality and inclusivity, you would not have done that or continued in the face of Jewish women speaking up about the harm you are causing. You don't have to "debate further" or respond to me, I'm speaking up more to show others that antisemitism is not acceptable anywhere.
I can’t recommend highly enough Thomas Hardy’s 1874 novel “Far from the Madding Crowd.” I’ve long felt that it’s the first novel written in English to feature a truly MODERN female main character. Bathsheba Everdene owns her own farm and extended land, bosses the farm workers, regularly goes out and about alone, deals with her own money, openly expresses opinions and skepticism and hauteur and impatience, rejects different men who express an interest and at one point, falls for the ONE GUY who is bristling with red flags. She figures things out. I love her strength and smarts and independence and even her blind spots.
Thank you
Solid gold! Thanks!
Great list.
OMG! Seeing Jane Eyre makes me want to talk about Rochester SO BADLY because the man is practically a case study in grooming, and I think Jane is seriously trauma-bonded.
He’s a red flag masterclass. Disciplinary directive (sit here, talk to me, answer me, wear what I buy you). I’m the prize (you should feel lucky I chose you). Conditional decency (sweet when she’s close, manipulative and explosive when she pushes back). Test & apologize (the fortune teller costume / Blanche). It’s all there!
Plus the withheld truth about being married. He's so manipulative. So gross.
It doesn't matter how much she wants to be on level ground with him; he's in control until she gets her inheritance and he loses his sight and strength. She's a poor, isolated employee constantly excusing his behavior and trying to heal his suffering with her enormous love. Just ew ew ew. (Been there.)
The ending is horrifying. A marvelous but exhausted, trauma-bonded woman rationalizes predatory behavior and signs up to be a trad wife. Gives me the ick.
B2B Rochester forever!
Never date a man who says their ex is crazy. Especially if they lock them in the attic and pretend they no longer exist 😆😆
Can we start a monthly book club to discuss and further enhance our rhetorical discourse analysis skills? I’ve been binging Adriana Trigiani books and the Italian patriarchy imbedded in these stories is infuriating!
That's going to be a feature on the new platform I'm about to launch. Please stay tuned!
HOORAY!!!
Any thoughts on good books for young readers?
My daughter is 10, and I'd like to introduce her to some books that will expand her understanding and empathy. She's a budding feminist and a proponent of women's rights, and most of her information comes from her reading.
Sometimes kids books simplify concepts too much, or turn them into slogans. She needs better quality information.
Kid's a voracious reader.
https://www.amightygirl.com/about
Thank you! Love your expertise and willingness to share.
I'm a fan of "crazy woman in the attic" novels, aka the female perspective. I've used these in my women's studies course to get away from the make gaze:
The Red Tent
Wide Sargasso Sea
Ahab's Wife (Naslund)
Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister (or Wicked, but only the book, never the movies)
I saw the Wicked stage show in San Francisco with Patty Duke (2020?) and it was phenomenal!
For those in the UK, I created a wishlist with the books in the feminist lit list (I might add the other books later if I have time): https://uk.bookshop.org/wishlists/39d6c952aa9cb2b04db5b3ba432a851c22209d2b