I’ve been following BHDM for about six months. I’m also in a couple of other dating/relationship community advice Facebook groups. I recently have noted a lot of internalized misogyny in these groups, especially when I post about my experiences while using BHDM. I think you’ll find this interesting: I matched with a guy, we chatted, and he asked me on a date. He said he couldn’t meet that weekend since he was going away, but asked if I had any time the following week. This conversation was on a Friday morning and was very actively back-and-forth. I replied that I had Wednesday and Thursday free. He didn’t reply to that message, and when I didn’t hear from him again by Monday afternoon, I was seriously considering unmatching because I felt that he could have at least replied re: when he would let me know. By that point I’d already made Wednesday plans, so I only had Thursday left anyway. At least 90% of the responders to my post were aghast at my “entitlement to the time of a man I’d never even met” and that my attitude was showing me unworthy of even being in the dating pool. One woman commented on my post repeatedly, saying she had shown her husband what i had written, and they both laughed and agreed that I would never find a man if I couldn’t even be patient to wait for an answer for three days when I knew that he was going to be busy over the weekend. I ended up being overwhelmed by the number of women responding, and mostly so negatively, that I deleted the post, but not before I remembered the names of a few of the most vehement opponents. A few days went by and I had an idea: I created another post in the same group, but I turned the tables so that I was the one going away for a weekend and did not reply to this man’s message for three days, and that when I went to reply on Monday afternoon that he had unmatched me. And you guessed it, once again I was the supervillain who had left this precious man on read for three days and didn’t even take the time to craft a quick response to him. I had access to my phone and I absolutely was in the wrong for not having replied, and this man was probably “high value” with a lot of options and I had missed the boat because I was self-absorbed! I waited for the comments to pile up because I was having a lot of fun reading them, especially the one woman who had shown her husband and laughed at my former post: and this version of her reply once again I was super entitled and would never find a man because I wasn’t valuing his time. I played a little bit of cat and mouse because I couldn’t help myself before I told the group that I had created both posts and the only thing I’d changed in each one was the gender and in both posts the woman was wrong, and showed how deeply the double standard for women BY WOMEN went. They were not happy, to say the least.
Internalized misogyny has us all mixed up. Just to say-I appreciate the original question and I’ve felt the same questions about being mid plan making and him disappearing. The idea that we are supposed to wait in order to allow men (or anyone for that matter) to take days to respond is silly at best. I love that you explored both sides of the issue to realize that the double standard is for many perceptions stacked on both sides. 🙏
Wow. I’m not suprised. I just dealt with the same thing on an advice group. Apparently I’m so entitled and clingy for wondering why men go over 24 hours with no message, if they’ve already given me their phone number and are interested.
Lots of men saying I’m just not interesting enough or that men need to quickly meet with a woman and have sex before they know if they like her. I was like umm ok so everyone is basically saying that all men suck. Got it.
Oh yes the internalised misogyny runs deep and wide! And, that was me. But that’s what I love about this method - I’m learning so much and have discovered I am a feminist!! Given my family upbringing this is huge because I’ve been conditioned all my life that feminists are nothing but bra-burning trouble makers! I love BHDM, it just makes so much good research-supported sense ❤️ Thank you Jennie!
Oh yes the internalised misogyny runs deep and wide! And, that was me. But that’s what I love about this method - I’m learning so much and have discovered I am a feminist!! Given my family upbringing this is huge because I’ve been conditioned all my life that feminists are nothing but bra-burning trouble makers! I love BHDM, it just makes so much good research-supported sense ❤️ Thank you Jennie!
I B2B but not before I replied with some choice words: (probably shouldn’t have wasted my time but couldn’t help myself!)
"Catholic schoolgirl, interesting"..what does that even mean? I think I know, and that is so creepy...you are why online dating sux... and why my dog proves to be a far better and smarter companion...
I have read the entire post and clicked on every single link and Im still co.pletely lost. Most of the links take me to an instagram log in or videos that cut off. I just want a document to reference and regurn to when I forget information since there is no way to communicate with anyone other than here.
You are a game changer. I blocked someone I was messaging that moved to text, telephone and then intrusive video calls in 2 1/2 weeks. We never met in real life. I let it go to see how far he was going to push it. A couple of things he did to minimize violating my boundaries was say, “I don’t mean that in a sexual way.” When he would say he wished he was physically with me at that moment because he felt so close to me and he needed that touch.
He made screen shots of us talking and then showed me the photos to show me the “look” in my eyes that he felt was for him. ( I was talking about flooding due to global warming). This later became his comment of the look he was looking for while we spoke as if I owed it to him to perform with my body in a way that was what he wanted.
I stated what was appropriate and what my boundaries were several times. He really didn’t want to listen. I’m a former Law Enforcement Officer and was extremely clear with him. I even told him it was ok that we were at different places and we needed to call it a day. He said he didn’t want that but that I needed to hurry up and be in love with him. I ended the phone call and sent him an email. I said very clearly my body is my own, no one will tell me when, where or how I am to use it. That even includes them telling me I need to smile or respond the way they want me to. I also told him emotions can’t be rushed and his behavior is unacceptable to me and to never contact me again. He of course tried several times to reach out to me. All have been blocked and deleted without being read. I wasn’t in any danger here and I have more training and experience than most and put it out there very clearly. I just wanted to share because some may still feel they are doing something wrong because another person isn’t t hearing them or respecting set boundaries. BHDM is the most positive tool to healthy relationships I have ever seen.
It’s not a giant leap to see how men go from thinking a woman needs to smile more to make him feel good to controlling her reproductive rights. Thank you so much.
I just blocked someone who messaged me on Substack. Since when is this a meat market?
His bio/tag line was "Looking for someone who will laugh at all my jokes." I thought of Burned Haystack immediately!
I also used the Method when looking for a mechanic. Guy answered a query on their website (inviting questions) by castigating my question and refusing to answer (what is your markup policy on parts and do you accept parts purchased elsewhere for repairs). If that is how they respond to their "Ask us anything!" online forum, I don't want to work with them. Nicely ruled them out and I went with the other shop, which has been great.
Thanks for sharing Burned Haystack method - soo useful in so aspects of life!
I too want to congratulate for you ‘work’ and believe it is far bigger than you may have even planned.
Since being a member and now subscribed to your six week course, I have realised that your words have empowered me to bring all of your ‘rules’ into every relationship of my life.
Five months ago it was published in The Sydney Morning Herald that:
A woman is being violently killed in Australia every four days this year.
To get to the point, I believe that your words, which are taking off the blinkers in society, will allow us to begin to stand up for ourselves, and recognise when a relationship is abusive, build women’s self esteem and confidence to know ‘they’ve got this’. To give women tools to recognise abusive relationships and be able to leave feeling empowered.
I live in a village with my mother and a neighbor told my Mum that an elderly man in the village said to her: “the only snake you need to be worried about is the snake between my legs”. This is a new man to the village who moved in with his wife.
You, Jennie, is ‘waking’ us all up and the sleazy, inappropriate conversations need to be called out.
I APPLAUD you.I believe you are called for such a time as this.
I have been searching the entire page, clicking on every link and skimming posts to try and find a list of the terms that are used here and I cannot find anything. It's extremely overwhelming to not be able to define words and phrases easily. It feels like Im in a foregn country without an interpreter and I just want to leave, but I want to believe in this methosld so I just spent 30 minutes creating a substack profile so I can post this inquiry. I dont have instagram so those links are dead ends for me or videos that get cut short because they appear to be on a story-type reel that only allows a few seconds. But visually readingnis how I retain info. I just want a web page, blog post, or pdf/doc with a terms glossary. Anyone? This is my last ditch effort I think. 😥😥
I started reading and learning about this method in November when it was suggested in a mom’s group I belong to. I had pretty much given up that I was going to have any luck within the apps. I applied it within a dating app in December through January and just was overwhelmed in the app so I deleted it. I made a goal for myself this year to find a companion so jumped back in on a different dating app in March to see if I would yield a different result. I THINK I FOUND MY NEEDLE! This man is respectful, kind, we share a ton of common interests and allows me to just be myself. He would like for us to grow together. 🥰 I was married for almost 20 years and have been divorced for 5. My ex husband was my one and only relationship so putting myself back out there, I was very lost where to start. I had dated and met a few men over the last couple of years but I was accommodating them. This method has taught me the right way to view those profiles and truly only engage with those worth my time. I didn’t think I could be a success story but here I am! Thank you Jennie for your work. I am forever grateful!
Hi Jennie. After a few months of following along and learning, I suspect there are some red flags in MY dating profile. Do you have any articles to recommend on that topic? Not that I think men are as thoughtful as we in analysis, but I certainly wouldn’t want to make any egregious errors, thus making the wrong impression and inviting the wrong kinds of matches. Much appreciated for all you do. —Christy
Hi Jennie. After a few months of following along and learning, I suspect there are some red flags in MY dating profile. Do you have any articles to recommend on that topic? Not that I think men are as thoughtful as we in analysis, but I certainly wouldn’t want to make any egregious errors, thus making the wrong impression and inviting the wrong kinds of matches. Much appreciated for all you do. —Christy
Maybe I have to wait for the book, but is there a written list of the 50 rhet patts? I keep getting sent to IG reels. Do I have to watch 50 reels to get them all? Just trying to find a quick list to read!
I’m new here and I have just had the most AWFUL experience
I agreed to date a guy - within 2 days he had me convinced that he was the one - talking marriage, moving into my home - when I confronted him on his behaviour he stated his mother suicided when he was 4 and he found her body - so acknowledged he had insecurities when it comes to woman - I acknowledged his trauma, however explained I did not need a relationship that went from zero to 1000 in 24hrs - I found myself responding to him with worlds I didn’t really mean - I then tried to explain I wasn’t interested in persuing and this is the message I received -
From Greg
Your not a very nice person Kelli to do what you did to me is wrong especially knowing what I have been through
Everyone is of the same opinion take care please do not contact me again
You really need some help you can’t treat people like that it’s not nice
I really thought you were genuine and a nice person guess I got it all wrong
Please get help - I feel sorry for Brodie (my autistic grandson)
I am trying to not let it sway me from being in a relationship but I’m now losing any confidence that I had and am extremely upset with his cruelty - trying to let it go…
I’ve been following BHDM for about six months. I’m also in a couple of other dating/relationship community advice Facebook groups. I recently have noted a lot of internalized misogyny in these groups, especially when I post about my experiences while using BHDM. I think you’ll find this interesting: I matched with a guy, we chatted, and he asked me on a date. He said he couldn’t meet that weekend since he was going away, but asked if I had any time the following week. This conversation was on a Friday morning and was very actively back-and-forth. I replied that I had Wednesday and Thursday free. He didn’t reply to that message, and when I didn’t hear from him again by Monday afternoon, I was seriously considering unmatching because I felt that he could have at least replied re: when he would let me know. By that point I’d already made Wednesday plans, so I only had Thursday left anyway. At least 90% of the responders to my post were aghast at my “entitlement to the time of a man I’d never even met” and that my attitude was showing me unworthy of even being in the dating pool. One woman commented on my post repeatedly, saying she had shown her husband what i had written, and they both laughed and agreed that I would never find a man if I couldn’t even be patient to wait for an answer for three days when I knew that he was going to be busy over the weekend. I ended up being overwhelmed by the number of women responding, and mostly so negatively, that I deleted the post, but not before I remembered the names of a few of the most vehement opponents. A few days went by and I had an idea: I created another post in the same group, but I turned the tables so that I was the one going away for a weekend and did not reply to this man’s message for three days, and that when I went to reply on Monday afternoon that he had unmatched me. And you guessed it, once again I was the supervillain who had left this precious man on read for three days and didn’t even take the time to craft a quick response to him. I had access to my phone and I absolutely was in the wrong for not having replied, and this man was probably “high value” with a lot of options and I had missed the boat because I was self-absorbed! I waited for the comments to pile up because I was having a lot of fun reading them, especially the one woman who had shown her husband and laughed at my former post: and this version of her reply once again I was super entitled and would never find a man because I wasn’t valuing his time. I played a little bit of cat and mouse because I couldn’t help myself before I told the group that I had created both posts and the only thing I’d changed in each one was the gender and in both posts the woman was wrong, and showed how deeply the double standard for women BY WOMEN went. They were not happy, to say the least.
Internalized misogyny has us all mixed up. Just to say-I appreciate the original question and I’ve felt the same questions about being mid plan making and him disappearing. The idea that we are supposed to wait in order to allow men (or anyone for that matter) to take days to respond is silly at best. I love that you explored both sides of the issue to realize that the double standard is for many perceptions stacked on both sides. 🙏
Wow. I’m not suprised. I just dealt with the same thing on an advice group. Apparently I’m so entitled and clingy for wondering why men go over 24 hours with no message, if they’ve already given me their phone number and are interested.
Lots of men saying I’m just not interesting enough or that men need to quickly meet with a woman and have sex before they know if they like her. I was like umm ok so everyone is basically saying that all men suck. Got it.
Oh yes the internalised misogyny runs deep and wide! And, that was me. But that’s what I love about this method - I’m learning so much and have discovered I am a feminist!! Given my family upbringing this is huge because I’ve been conditioned all my life that feminists are nothing but bra-burning trouble makers! I love BHDM, it just makes so much good research-supported sense ❤️ Thank you Jennie!
YOU ARE A SUPERSTAR!! I love the way you exposed the misogynistic double standard!!!
Oh yes the internalised misogyny runs deep and wide! And, that was me. But that’s what I love about this method - I’m learning so much and have discovered I am a feminist!! Given my family upbringing this is huge because I’ve been conditioned all my life that feminists are nothing but bra-burning trouble makers! I love BHDM, it just makes so much good research-supported sense ❤️ Thank you Jennie!
I love your work! Wasnt sure how to get you to see this or the group so am putting it here: “matched”
With someone on an app and the usual, where did you grow up, HS, college, blah blah blah.
His respnse to my Catholic HS (he listed he is Catholic) was this:
“Ah, Catholic schoolgirl, interesting”
I think that is a B2B and super creepy…thoughts?
ABSOLUTELY super creepy! Imagine going with "pedophile vibes" as your way to appeal to women 🙄
I B2B but not before I replied with some choice words: (probably shouldn’t have wasted my time but couldn’t help myself!)
"Catholic schoolgirl, interesting"..what does that even mean? I think I know, and that is so creepy...you are why online dating sux... and why my dog proves to be a far better and smarter companion...
Hope you find the bimbo you are looking for...
OMG. I laughed so loud, I woke my kids. Perfect response.
Girl, EEW. What a creep! Good thing he shared that sooner than later. B2B!
Totally creepy
Ewww! I'm 70 years old and that would have been an instant block.
Are the rhetorical patterns catalogued somewhere in writing? (I struggle with videos.) I'm eagerly awaiting your book, either way!
Love you and follow you religiously!
Aww, thank you 🥰
I have read the entire post and clicked on every single link and Im still co.pletely lost. Most of the links take me to an instagram log in or videos that cut off. I just want a document to reference and regurn to when I forget information since there is no way to communicate with anyone other than here.
You are a game changer. I blocked someone I was messaging that moved to text, telephone and then intrusive video calls in 2 1/2 weeks. We never met in real life. I let it go to see how far he was going to push it. A couple of things he did to minimize violating my boundaries was say, “I don’t mean that in a sexual way.” When he would say he wished he was physically with me at that moment because he felt so close to me and he needed that touch.
He made screen shots of us talking and then showed me the photos to show me the “look” in my eyes that he felt was for him. ( I was talking about flooding due to global warming). This later became his comment of the look he was looking for while we spoke as if I owed it to him to perform with my body in a way that was what he wanted.
I stated what was appropriate and what my boundaries were several times. He really didn’t want to listen. I’m a former Law Enforcement Officer and was extremely clear with him. I even told him it was ok that we were at different places and we needed to call it a day. He said he didn’t want that but that I needed to hurry up and be in love with him. I ended the phone call and sent him an email. I said very clearly my body is my own, no one will tell me when, where or how I am to use it. That even includes them telling me I need to smile or respond the way they want me to. I also told him emotions can’t be rushed and his behavior is unacceptable to me and to never contact me again. He of course tried several times to reach out to me. All have been blocked and deleted without being read. I wasn’t in any danger here and I have more training and experience than most and put it out there very clearly. I just wanted to share because some may still feel they are doing something wrong because another person isn’t t hearing them or respecting set boundaries. BHDM is the most positive tool to healthy relationships I have ever seen.
It’s not a giant leap to see how men go from thinking a woman needs to smile more to make him feel good to controlling her reproductive rights. Thank you so much.
Lori
I just blocked someone who messaged me on Substack. Since when is this a meat market?
His bio/tag line was "Looking for someone who will laugh at all my jokes." I thought of Burned Haystack immediately!
I also used the Method when looking for a mechanic. Guy answered a query on their website (inviting questions) by castigating my question and refusing to answer (what is your markup policy on parts and do you accept parts purchased elsewhere for repairs). If that is how they respond to their "Ask us anything!" online forum, I don't want to work with them. Nicely ruled them out and I went with the other shop, which has been great.
Thanks for sharing Burned Haystack method - soo useful in so aspects of life!
Me too! I use BHDM in every part of my life now. It is so healthy and respectful. That is exactly the direction I take my life.
Hello Jennie,
I too want to congratulate for you ‘work’ and believe it is far bigger than you may have even planned.
Since being a member and now subscribed to your six week course, I have realised that your words have empowered me to bring all of your ‘rules’ into every relationship of my life.
Five months ago it was published in The Sydney Morning Herald that:
A woman is being violently killed in Australia every four days this year.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/a-woman-is-being-violently-killed-in-australia-every-four-days-this-year-20240424-p5fmcb.html
To get to the point, I believe that your words, which are taking off the blinkers in society, will allow us to begin to stand up for ourselves, and recognise when a relationship is abusive, build women’s self esteem and confidence to know ‘they’ve got this’. To give women tools to recognise abusive relationships and be able to leave feeling empowered.
I live in a village with my mother and a neighbor told my Mum that an elderly man in the village said to her: “the only snake you need to be worried about is the snake between my legs”. This is a new man to the village who moved in with his wife.
You, Jennie, is ‘waking’ us all up and the sleazy, inappropriate conversations need to be called out.
I APPLAUD you.I believe you are called for such a time as this.
Kind regards and Thank you,
Gail Robinson
Australia
(I may have written/posted this incorrectly!)
You are absolutely correct. Well said.
I have been searching the entire page, clicking on every link and skimming posts to try and find a list of the terms that are used here and I cannot find anything. It's extremely overwhelming to not be able to define words and phrases easily. It feels like Im in a foregn country without an interpreter and I just want to leave, but I want to believe in this methosld so I just spent 30 minutes creating a substack profile so I can post this inquiry. I dont have instagram so those links are dead ends for me or videos that get cut short because they appear to be on a story-type reel that only allows a few seconds. But visually readingnis how I retain info. I just want a web page, blog post, or pdf/doc with a terms glossary. Anyone? This is my last ditch effort I think. 😥😥
Why some people can post in the FB group and others don't? Where is it explained?
I wonder this, too.
I started reading and learning about this method in November when it was suggested in a mom’s group I belong to. I had pretty much given up that I was going to have any luck within the apps. I applied it within a dating app in December through January and just was overwhelmed in the app so I deleted it. I made a goal for myself this year to find a companion so jumped back in on a different dating app in March to see if I would yield a different result. I THINK I FOUND MY NEEDLE! This man is respectful, kind, we share a ton of common interests and allows me to just be myself. He would like for us to grow together. 🥰 I was married for almost 20 years and have been divorced for 5. My ex husband was my one and only relationship so putting myself back out there, I was very lost where to start. I had dated and met a few men over the last couple of years but I was accommodating them. This method has taught me the right way to view those profiles and truly only engage with those worth my time. I didn’t think I could be a success story but here I am! Thank you Jennie for your work. I am forever grateful!
Hi Jennie. After a few months of following along and learning, I suspect there are some red flags in MY dating profile. Do you have any articles to recommend on that topic? Not that I think men are as thoughtful as we in analysis, but I certainly wouldn’t want to make any egregious errors, thus making the wrong impression and inviting the wrong kinds of matches. Much appreciated for all you do. —Christy
Hi Jennie. After a few months of following along and learning, I suspect there are some red flags in MY dating profile. Do you have any articles to recommend on that topic? Not that I think men are as thoughtful as we in analysis, but I certainly wouldn’t want to make any egregious errors, thus making the wrong impression and inviting the wrong kinds of matches. Much appreciated for all you do. —Christy
Hi I have left a few messages on the FB page, I can’t figure how to add a post
Can someone help me
Maybe I have to wait for the book, but is there a written list of the 50 rhet patts? I keep getting sent to IG reels. Do I have to watch 50 reels to get them all? Just trying to find a quick list to read!
I’m new here and I have just had the most AWFUL experience
I agreed to date a guy - within 2 days he had me convinced that he was the one - talking marriage, moving into my home - when I confronted him on his behaviour he stated his mother suicided when he was 4 and he found her body - so acknowledged he had insecurities when it comes to woman - I acknowledged his trauma, however explained I did not need a relationship that went from zero to 1000 in 24hrs - I found myself responding to him with worlds I didn’t really mean - I then tried to explain I wasn’t interested in persuing and this is the message I received -
From Greg
Your not a very nice person Kelli to do what you did to me is wrong especially knowing what I have been through
Everyone is of the same opinion take care please do not contact me again
You really need some help you can’t treat people like that it’s not nice
I really thought you were genuine and a nice person guess I got it all wrong
Please get help - I feel sorry for Brodie (my autistic grandson)
I am trying to not let it sway me from being in a relationship but I’m now losing any confidence that I had and am extremely upset with his cruelty - trying to let it go…
Is there a place where we can see a list of all the rhetorical patterns in one place, instead of needing to watch a series of videos? Thanks so much!