Also if someone says "I don't mean to offend you" the next thing they are about to say is usually offensive! It's like the "Test and Apologize" pattern. This post gave me the creeps when I read it, like using what he assumes is her given name at birth is going to give him some sort of Daddy button in her brain to push.
May I ask what the deal is with the “Daddy” references? My boyfriend sometimes refers to himself as daddy and I find it icky. I more or less ignore it hoping it will go away (but it hasn’t). Thank you.
Gross. "Daddy" generally refers to a kink Honorific - specifically a BDSM (power exchange) type dynamic, with an agreed Honorific, that has been negotiated and consented to.
Whilst "Daddy" has entered the general lexicon (from movies etc - who's your Daddy) etc - it's seeped out from the kink domain.
The D in BDSM is domination and generally associated with a dominant and a submissive.
This is highly problematic in your case as your partner is involving you non-consentually in their kink.
You haven't agreed / consented to any form of power exchange in your relationship.
You have had zero opportunity to negotiate the boundaries of any dynamic.
It makes you feel gross because it is - it's a HUGE (fundamental) consent violation.
And from a CDA perspective - to me it says that his rhetoric indicates that he considers he has the right to expect submission from you. Massive entitlement red flag along with a whole bag of other problematic applications of patriarchal power structures (which BDSM and kink are also steeped in).
There can be healthy / ethcical kink - but holy shit it's utterly marinated in problematic historical context that few take the time to deconstruct and understand to try and establish an ethical platform, before engaging.
I’ve noticed that every time someone (usually a man) says ‚I don’t mean to…‘ it follows with exactly what they ‚don’t’ want to do. I have a (male) colleague who loves to start sentences with ‚I Don’t mean to mansplain..‘ yet does exactly that. Or ‚I Don’t mean to trash xy but..’ and trashes said person. Really uncomfortable!
I absolutely agree and think this pattern is worth paying attention to. However, I do this professionally as I have a direct communication style and ask a lot of questions to gain clarity. This can come off as challenging authority when I'm seeking to understand. I often say "Not to sound defiant/argumentative/difficult but..." before I ask questions. I find people react more positively to me when I preface questions than when I do not, but I'm a woman so I hAvE tO bE aGrEeAbLe.
Ugh yes! I have a neighbor who harasses me with her anxieties and she ALWAYS leads with “I don’t mean to bother you” after knocking on my door for the 3rd time in hours. She knows she’s bothering me, but it also makes it sound like I would be unreasonably for being bothered. Some may not thing so, but she’ll also say things like “Can I ask you a question without you getting upset?” when I have never been upset by a question she asked me. I did finally disconnect my doorbell after she refused to not ring it after months of me asking her not to.
When someone says; I don’t mean to offend you, and continues talking… bye! If you know what you are about to say is offensive and say it anyway you don’t get to claim you don’t want to offend me. You are actively demonstrating you don’t care if you offend me and gaslighting with your words to try to claim you have positive intent for me. When the truth is you only care about yourself. Especially with such an audacious statement like I don’t want to use your real name.
Wow! That is extreme. He should buy an inflatable doll which he could call by whatever name he desires. :D
The first thing that annoyed me about his profile text (even before 'thake a chance' and before the name change) was the fact that he is looking for a woman he can 'relax with'.
That's what woman are for him- not a partner, but a relaxation device!
(This also fits the common 'mother' archetype many men see in women- they believe it's her job to give 'warmth', to comfort and to soothe others.🙄)
and 'have fun'. I was done at "I'm tired"- which to me means, low energy, low effort, boring. I don't want a tired, old man. that was his opening line. he's tired, and he wants to relax and have fun (meaning we do him favors). gross. the name thing is beyond. it makes me think serial rapist/killer, it's really objectifying and creepy. granted, it could be her given name, but still, hell no, ain't happening. if it's kink, he should say.
I have a similar story: I matched with this man who seemed really nice with potential, he was real as I validated him online. We were messaging but hadn’t met yet. He told me he loved my smile and he started calling me “Smiles”. I ignored it the first time but he kept calling me that without asking, so I decided to tell him politely that I didn’t like that nickname and could he just call me by my real name. He ghosted me and I never heard from him again. I guess he was thinking “how DARE she take away my ability to give her a nickname! That witch!”. I still can’t believe it. I was perfect in his eyes until I didn’t go along with him on something he wanted. 😬
Yes good point, same way players call all their side pieces “babe” to avoid using the wrong name. Maybe this guy’s strategy is even worse - by calling them all Smiles he is subtly giving a directive
Again, thank you Jennie, for this group. My legal name is Elizabeth, but I have gone by Beth my whole life. Calling me "Elizabeth," in my mind, is the same as calling me Susan or any other name that is not mine, and yet, I repeatedly meet men who INSIST on calling me Elizabeth because THEY like it better. In their minds, it is more romantic and feminine. It always rubbed me the wrong way, but I could never put my finger on why. Now I see how controlling, manipulative, and misogynistic it is.
I am Chris, I introduce myself to everyone as Chris and only use my full name on banking info and my passport. It's astounding how many times someone decides, without asking, to call me my full name (without actually knowing for sure what it is because there are many longer variations of Chris) and they have *always* been, without fail, older men. The audacity of the mediocre middle-aged white man.
For me, once I saw the profile what stood out was "I'm looking for one woman" (then goes on to indicate it's not particularly important what the nature of his relationship ends up being with this "one woman"!) He could have the most submissive and peaceful approach (not that he does, as you point out) but he still sounds like he's either one step in front of or behind ordering a blow-up doll.
I too flagged the words “one woman”. Years ago I went undercover on Ashley Madison to see if I could find my ex on there cheating (I didn’t find him there but eventually got the evidence I needed to leave). What I noticed amongst hundreds of local married men looking to cheat, is they all said they were looking for “one woman”. It stood out to me, because I know for a fact that these cheating types do not just stick to one affair partner. It’s about variety for them. So I concluded, when they say “one woman”, it’s a clue they are trying to give a false sense of security.
Very interesting. Of course, many of us want a monogamous relationship. But to say they want one woman, when talking to women they haven't even met, it is perhaps warning of something.
Same here. It made me think of a "not like other girls" spiel. As if all other women are terrible, but maybe he'll find one (just one) that he can relax and have fun with.
It's also a little bit of that "my kids come first" rhetorical pattern. You're stating the obvious saying you are only looking for one woman... why does he feel the need to spell it out?
My name is Peggy. Many men have called me "Peg" and I've said "My name is Peggy." They continue to call me "Peg" as if the 1 extra syllable is too much effort. What a turn-off.
My goodness, the mental illness of some of the men on the apps. It’s shocking to me that he would want to call her a name other than her own name. Another great stack, thank you, Jennie & the facebook community.
No accident! He wishes to have an ongoing relationship with a woman named Elizabeth. The next woman is a stand in for the original "Elizabeth" as he tries to work out what he didn't get the first go around. Reminds me of James Stewart's character in "Vertigo."
Uh, I’ve been called wrong name or pronounced wrong all my life by teachers, bosses and some ex boyfriends. I do like my own name very much thank you. You using my name wrong or using another name renders you irritating and unattractive to me forever. B2B
I would not even work for a boss who does that. People usually like their own names. It’s utterly disrespectful decide what you want to call someone.
I was triggered by the Betsy/Elizabeth thing! My legal name is Elizabeth and while my needle has stated that he loves the name - he 100% of the time calls me Betsy and has made statements about how important it is to call people by their names (waiters included). This is part of the reason he is a needle!
My exhusband called me “Pea” short for “Sweet Pea” - which was MY nickname for HIM at the beginning of our relationship. He NEVER used “Betsy”. He objectified me and ended up being diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder.
The number of times I have been asked to change my name from Alison to the more girlish (IMO) Ali - within minutes of meeting or even engaging on an app!
Just being cynical here, but if I were to respond, I would say “I like the name Dick”, may I call you that? … because he is one…. No way is anyone going to dictate what my name is and how I like to be addressed.
I would have B2B on this one just because the profile itself gives me the ick but also another profile using the phrase take a chance I might have missed as a directive. So helpful and interesting! I also like how liberal I am now with B2B. I used to give so many passes on profiles if I found them attractive. Not anymore!!
Also if someone says "I don't mean to offend you" the next thing they are about to say is usually offensive! It's like the "Test and Apologize" pattern. This post gave me the creeps when I read it, like using what he assumes is her given name at birth is going to give him some sort of Daddy button in her brain to push.
When someone says they don’t mean to offend me, I immediately feel defensive because I know some garbage is coming at me.
Thank you for sharing this experience Betsy. It's very helpful to see.
Thank you for your kind words, Ann. If were not for Jennie, I might have swallowed my annoyance and continued to engage with this person.
I hear that!!!
May I ask what the deal is with the “Daddy” references? My boyfriend sometimes refers to himself as daddy and I find it icky. I more or less ignore it hoping it will go away (but it hasn’t). Thank you.
Don’t ignore it. Ask him about it. Tell him how you feel.
🤢 That is a good question for Jennie Young.
Gross. "Daddy" generally refers to a kink Honorific - specifically a BDSM (power exchange) type dynamic, with an agreed Honorific, that has been negotiated and consented to.
Whilst "Daddy" has entered the general lexicon (from movies etc - who's your Daddy) etc - it's seeped out from the kink domain.
The D in BDSM is domination and generally associated with a dominant and a submissive.
This is highly problematic in your case as your partner is involving you non-consentually in their kink.
You haven't agreed / consented to any form of power exchange in your relationship.
You have had zero opportunity to negotiate the boundaries of any dynamic.
It makes you feel gross because it is - it's a HUGE (fundamental) consent violation.
And from a CDA perspective - to me it says that his rhetoric indicates that he considers he has the right to expect submission from you. Massive entitlement red flag along with a whole bag of other problematic applications of patriarchal power structures (which BDSM and kink are also steeped in).
There can be healthy / ethcical kink - but holy shit it's utterly marinated in problematic historical context that few take the time to deconstruct and understand to try and establish an ethical platform, before engaging.
The rhetorical subtext here is .... Concerning.
I’ve noticed that every time someone (usually a man) says ‚I don’t mean to…‘ it follows with exactly what they ‚don’t’ want to do. I have a (male) colleague who loves to start sentences with ‚I Don’t mean to mansplain..‘ yet does exactly that. Or ‚I Don’t mean to trash xy but..’ and trashes said person. Really uncomfortable!
I absolutely agree and think this pattern is worth paying attention to. However, I do this professionally as I have a direct communication style and ask a lot of questions to gain clarity. This can come off as challenging authority when I'm seeking to understand. I often say "Not to sound defiant/argumentative/difficult but..." before I ask questions. I find people react more positively to me when I preface questions than when I do not, but I'm a woman so I hAvE tO bE aGrEeAbLe.
Ugh yes! I have a neighbor who harasses me with her anxieties and she ALWAYS leads with “I don’t mean to bother you” after knocking on my door for the 3rd time in hours. She knows she’s bothering me, but it also makes it sound like I would be unreasonably for being bothered. Some may not thing so, but she’ll also say things like “Can I ask you a question without you getting upset?” when I have never been upset by a question she asked me. I did finally disconnect my doorbell after she refused to not ring it after months of me asking her not to.
When someone says; I don’t mean to offend you, and continues talking… bye! If you know what you are about to say is offensive and say it anyway you don’t get to claim you don’t want to offend me. You are actively demonstrating you don’t care if you offend me and gaslighting with your words to try to claim you have positive intent for me. When the truth is you only care about yourself. Especially with such an audacious statement like I don’t want to use your real name.
Wow! That is extreme. He should buy an inflatable doll which he could call by whatever name he desires. :D
The first thing that annoyed me about his profile text (even before 'thake a chance' and before the name change) was the fact that he is looking for a woman he can 'relax with'.
That's what woman are for him- not a partner, but a relaxation device!
(This also fits the common 'mother' archetype many men see in women- they believe it's her job to give 'warmth', to comfort and to soothe others.🙄)
and 'have fun'. I was done at "I'm tired"- which to me means, low energy, low effort, boring. I don't want a tired, old man. that was his opening line. he's tired, and he wants to relax and have fun (meaning we do him favors). gross. the name thing is beyond. it makes me think serial rapist/killer, it's really objectifying and creepy. granted, it could be her given name, but still, hell no, ain't happening. if it's kink, he should say.
I have a similar story: I matched with this man who seemed really nice with potential, he was real as I validated him online. We were messaging but hadn’t met yet. He told me he loved my smile and he started calling me “Smiles”. I ignored it the first time but he kept calling me that without asking, so I decided to tell him politely that I didn’t like that nickname and could he just call me by my real name. He ghosted me and I never heard from him again. I guess he was thinking “how DARE she take away my ability to give her a nickname! That witch!”. I still can’t believe it. I was perfect in his eyes until I didn’t go along with him on something he wanted. 😬
he probably called all the women that, and said that to all of them.
Yes good point, same way players call all their side pieces “babe” to avoid using the wrong name. Maybe this guy’s strategy is even worse - by calling them all Smiles he is subtly giving a directive
yes, a directive to 'smile', which is code for please me and don't gripe.
Again, thank you Jennie, for this group. My legal name is Elizabeth, but I have gone by Beth my whole life. Calling me "Elizabeth," in my mind, is the same as calling me Susan or any other name that is not mine, and yet, I repeatedly meet men who INSIST on calling me Elizabeth because THEY like it better. In their minds, it is more romantic and feminine. It always rubbed me the wrong way, but I could never put my finger on why. Now I see how controlling, manipulative, and misogynistic it is.
I am Chris, I introduce myself to everyone as Chris and only use my full name on banking info and my passport. It's astounding how many times someone decides, without asking, to call me my full name (without actually knowing for sure what it is because there are many longer variations of Chris) and they have *always* been, without fail, older men. The audacity of the mediocre middle-aged white man.
I hear you. Or when they shorten mine to “Kris”. It’s not my name. I let my father-in-law get away with it but he is 92.
For me, once I saw the profile what stood out was "I'm looking for one woman" (then goes on to indicate it's not particularly important what the nature of his relationship ends up being with this "one woman"!) He could have the most submissive and peaceful approach (not that he does, as you point out) but he still sounds like he's either one step in front of or behind ordering a blow-up doll.
I too flagged the words “one woman”. Years ago I went undercover on Ashley Madison to see if I could find my ex on there cheating (I didn’t find him there but eventually got the evidence I needed to leave). What I noticed amongst hundreds of local married men looking to cheat, is they all said they were looking for “one woman”. It stood out to me, because I know for a fact that these cheating types do not just stick to one affair partner. It’s about variety for them. So I concluded, when they say “one woman”, it’s a clue they are trying to give a false sense of security.
Wow! Baiting the cheating hook with the promise of loyalty takes some combination of cognitive dissonance, disingenuousness, and/or idiocy.
And I would say 90% of the cheating married men said this
that's really good to know.
Wow! Yes that language gives me the ick but you just illuminated why! It’s manipulative and insincere.
Very interesting. Of course, many of us want a monogamous relationship. But to say they want one woman, when talking to women they haven't even met, it is perhaps warning of something.
Same here. It made me think of a "not like other girls" spiel. As if all other women are terrible, but maybe he'll find one (just one) that he can relax and have fun with.
It's also a little bit of that "my kids come first" rhetorical pattern. You're stating the obvious saying you are only looking for one woman... why does he feel the need to spell it out?
The first sentence with “who I can relax with and have fun with” is code for “who I can have no strings sex with”.
My name is Peggy. Many men have called me "Peg" and I've said "My name is Peggy." They continue to call me "Peg" as if the 1 extra syllable is too much effort. What a turn-off.
My goodness, the mental illness of some of the men on the apps. It’s shocking to me that he would want to call her a name other than her own name. Another great stack, thank you, Jennie & the facebook community.
No accident! He wishes to have an ongoing relationship with a woman named Elizabeth. The next woman is a stand in for the original "Elizabeth" as he tries to work out what he didn't get the first go around. Reminds me of James Stewart's character in "Vertigo."
Uh, I’ve been called wrong name or pronounced wrong all my life by teachers, bosses and some ex boyfriends. I do like my own name very much thank you. You using my name wrong or using another name renders you irritating and unattractive to me forever. B2B
I would not even work for a boss who does that. People usually like their own names. It’s utterly disrespectful decide what you want to call someone.
I was triggered by the Betsy/Elizabeth thing! My legal name is Elizabeth and while my needle has stated that he loves the name - he 100% of the time calls me Betsy and has made statements about how important it is to call people by their names (waiters included). This is part of the reason he is a needle!
My exhusband called me “Pea” short for “Sweet Pea” - which was MY nickname for HIM at the beginning of our relationship. He NEVER used “Betsy”. He objectified me and ended up being diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder.
Another Betsy/Elizabeth here. My ex told all his friends he was dating someone named Elizabeth. They were confused when I introduced myself as Betsy.
That is hilarious!
Exactly! Names are important!
The number of times I have been asked to change my name from Alison to the more girlish (IMO) Ali - within minutes of meeting or even engaging on an app!
Omg! What is wrong with these men? Trying to get real women to fit their fantasy of their ideal woman.
My least favorite shortening of our name
Really? People do this? Wow. That’s ballsy.
Indeed. It's easy to overlook the clues, but there are so many men who want to control us!
The absolute audacity!!! So glad to have the clear line from the early directive language that the full on controlling behavior illuminated!
Just being cynical here, but if I were to respond, I would say “I like the name Dick”, may I call you that? … because he is one…. No way is anyone going to dictate what my name is and how I like to be addressed.
Absolutely Kat! The opportunities for names are endless. "Fido," "Jeeves," and Sewer Waste" and are the top of my list.
I would have B2B on this one just because the profile itself gives me the ick but also another profile using the phrase take a chance I might have missed as a directive. So helpful and interesting! I also like how liberal I am now with B2B. I used to give so many passes on profiles if I found them attractive. Not anymore!!