I love this! I’ve always deleted the guys who had bad grammar and spelling errors. My friends would say I’m too picky or I’m an elitist. “Give him a chance” they would say. I would respond that if the guy can’t be bothered to spellcheck or proofread his profile (which is intended to meet his “person”) then how much of an effort would he make for that person? Thanks for validating my decisions!
Yes, good point. The difference between these men and my mother (who had difficulty spelling), who I illustrated in my response here, is that she actually WANTED to get it right, would use a dictionary or ask me for help. These men on the apps are purely lazy and do not care one bit.
JENNIE! I am close to tears. I can't TELL you how many times I've been called snobby (or worse) for expecting grown-ass men to use proper grammar on app profiles.
This post is so validating.
I really got into it with someone who said, "Maybe he's dyslexic?" And I replied, "I expect a grown man who has dyslexia to have developed some tools to navigate that, or, come out and say, "please forgive the errors, I have dyslexia and written communication is not my strength."
It especially chaps my hide that the dudes who claim to be professionals, who presumably can do so on resumes and email, do not bother in their profiles.
Why? Because effort equals desire. You make an effort for things you want. Acknowledging they want something makes them feel too vulnerable. If they don't want something, they won't feel rejected when they don't get it.
Or, they're just tools.
Before I got on the apps, I wrote out my profile in Google Docs to edit and proof it. It's not that hard. The app is free and available to anyone.
That a man doesn't avail himself of it speaks volumes.
I truly think it’s unfair to assume that a person did not carefully try to edit their written words, and still get it wrong. I also think it’s vastly unfair to expect a person to out themselves as someone with a learning disability before they have even gotten to know you. It’s your choice to set your standard there, but you’re missing out on some incredibly intelligent kindhearted people, simply because your brain is really good at putting words together and spelling them.
It's a chance I am willing to take. I'm not talking about one misplaced letter, I'm talking about a profile that clearly hasn't been proofed. I wouldn't accept lack of attention to detail from a job applicant.
Someone with a learning disability is running the risk of me assuming they are lazy, arrogant or stupid if they don't either use tools available to present themselves as neuronormative, or take a risk and put it out there that they're not.
You're assuming that having a learning disability is something that would make them unattractive. Absolutely not. What makes them unattractive is lack of awareness of how they are presenting themselves, and expecting me to make allowances for it.
I'm not under any obligation to "well maybe" a dating profile that is full of errors. If the content is really , really compelling I might overlook it. I have never seen an error-ridden profile that was.
Literal conversation 2 weeks ago in a local singles FB group:
Post:
Question of the Day - What is something that you do to get the attention of a person that you are attracted to?
Me: I'll message them if my interest is piqued.
Random dude: hi
Me: 👋
RD: wyd
Me: lmbl, anmybytofm
RD: lol, ok, how bout we talk some time after your done with all dat
Me: No
He later dirty deleted all his answers. 🤣🤣🤣 Give the same energy back to them and they get so confused. This white man is pushing 60 yrs old, according to my best guess. We had had zero direct interactions before this, but I had seen some of his posts and answers in the group before and knew I wanted nothing to do with him even if he had had perfect grammar. Could I have ignored him? Yes, but I was feeling spicy that day. 😁 He would be a definite B2B if we were on apps.
Great article! I was thinking that the written dating app bio is like putting your best foot forward, showing up as your best for someone to select you. Sort of like wearing a suit to a job interview. So when you show up sloppy it really says something.
I wish I had a nickel for every time I've been called "judgemental" as if that's a bad thing.
Yes! I am! I use my judgement!
I am judge, jury and executioner of my dating app and the court finds the defendant guilty of being a lazy, low-effort dork who is sentenced to an immediate B2B
In my observation, people are all judgmental. There’s something they’re being judgmental about, as humans. However, if it’s something they themselves are bad at or not making effort with, they pull out the judgmental card.
So glad you used “could not care less” - so many people drop the “not” and it makes me sad. Years ago, heard a radio interviewer say “I don’t mean to be pedantic, but I am.”
I have an MFA in writing. Since my vestibular disorder kicked in 2018 accompanied by hearing loss— my capacity for grammar, attention to detail etc. all took a beating. On some level people need to be aware of their ableism—and if it is at play. I have certainly noticed friends and strangers get irritated with me when I make my many, many, many simple mistakes that are normal now. I realized—with deep shame—how often I had made unkind judgements about others in the before times. Just something to consider. (Also—it took me 5x as long to write this as it should have. I don’t often text people anymore.)
As someone who was always advanced in English and was suggested to be a writer, who then became a mother to a brilliant child whom was diagnosed with dyslexia, and then who has suffered an injury impacting a lot of abilities, I am now “advanced” in humility and can completely relate to your story -including how long it takes to now write something. Having experienced first hand his disability and now my own (both invisible and obvious) and trying to relearn and retrain lost abilities on my recovery journey, I now try to give grace to others not knowing their full story.
Allison- quite so, this BHDM group does run afoul of ableism awareness, cultural humility and other privilege - although I agree that people can make the effort to iron out a profile, more or less. Most importantly, as a musician, I just want to convey some sort of “i see you”- it must be incredibly frustrating considering your MFA in writing. I will take your note to consider all possibilities to heart.
And, you understand your disability and how to navigate it. As Jennie says all the time, the discourse community sets the standard.
Among your family and friends who know and love you and know your disability, of course errors should be looked over and every effort made on their part to meet you where you are and accommodate your disability.
Some rando on a dating app is under no obligation to make that effort. The discourse community of the apps expects you to meet the standard of a well-written profile, which you have all of the time and tools at your disposal to do. You could even get a friend to help you! Once you are in conversation, you can explain your limitations and suggest other platforms that are easier for you to communicate in.
I don't need a stranger on a dating app to do anything. I'm suggesting to those here to ask themselves whether ableism is at play in their glee at pilloring those whose attention to detail has faltered. It wouldn't have occurred to me to ask myself that question before I became disabled.
With every article, I love you more!! Thank you for breaking down why grammar is important. It’s an indication that one cares. It’s part of our unwritten collective contract for civilized relationships.
YES! THIS! I am - unfortunately - a Grammar nerd and it's important to me that the people I communicate with speak proper English. (Unless it's their second - or even third - language.) I think proper grammar shows a level of intelligence/education/consideration that is important to me. Others maybe not, but bad grammar is a total turnoff for me.
“4 u” is a pet peeve of mine along with the “your” and “you’re” issue so many seem to have. It’s not that hard. The best one - I had one correct me on the spelling of Dalmatian last week - in all caps, no less. Okay, genius. I have had a Dalmatian in my house for 24 years. I know how to spell it, thanks! So does your spell check. 🤣🫣
A person's profile is their first introduction, rather like a job interview; a person rarely, if ever, gets a second chance to make a first impression, and should, therefore, take the time and effort necessary to make a good first impression. Proper grammar and spelling is a big part of that; at least, it is for me.
I have Zero shame pulling out the calculator to figure out the proper 20%! We all have calculators in our pockets now. 🎉😉😁
But seriously I have not kept up with the “hip” new way of spelling and don’t get me started on these new fangled acronyms 👵 I just straight up ask guys, “what do you mean by ____?” 🤷♀️
Side note: it’s obvious on the facebook page who actually read the article before commenting 🙄 people saying this is ableist are completely missing the point!! It is talking about effort.
Also, if they have a profession that requires higher education and they are using numbers for letters then they are desperately trying to appear young and hip. 😄👵
I love this! I’ve always deleted the guys who had bad grammar and spelling errors. My friends would say I’m too picky or I’m an elitist. “Give him a chance” they would say. I would respond that if the guy can’t be bothered to spellcheck or proofread his profile (which is intended to meet his “person”) then how much of an effort would he make for that person? Thanks for validating my decisions!
Yes, good point. The difference between these men and my mother (who had difficulty spelling), who I illustrated in my response here, is that she actually WANTED to get it right, would use a dictionary or ask me for help. These men on the apps are purely lazy and do not care one bit.
It’s a values mis-match. I’m with you!
JENNIE! I am close to tears. I can't TELL you how many times I've been called snobby (or worse) for expecting grown-ass men to use proper grammar on app profiles.
This post is so validating.
I really got into it with someone who said, "Maybe he's dyslexic?" And I replied, "I expect a grown man who has dyslexia to have developed some tools to navigate that, or, come out and say, "please forgive the errors, I have dyslexia and written communication is not my strength."
It especially chaps my hide that the dudes who claim to be professionals, who presumably can do so on resumes and email, do not bother in their profiles.
Why? Because effort equals desire. You make an effort for things you want. Acknowledging they want something makes them feel too vulnerable. If they don't want something, they won't feel rejected when they don't get it.
Or, they're just tools.
Before I got on the apps, I wrote out my profile in Google Docs to edit and proof it. It's not that hard. The app is free and available to anyone.
That a man doesn't avail himself of it speaks volumes.
Nail on the head with your desire explanation!!
I truly think it’s unfair to assume that a person did not carefully try to edit their written words, and still get it wrong. I also think it’s vastly unfair to expect a person to out themselves as someone with a learning disability before they have even gotten to know you. It’s your choice to set your standard there, but you’re missing out on some incredibly intelligent kindhearted people, simply because your brain is really good at putting words together and spelling them.
It's a chance I am willing to take. I'm not talking about one misplaced letter, I'm talking about a profile that clearly hasn't been proofed. I wouldn't accept lack of attention to detail from a job applicant.
Someone with a learning disability is running the risk of me assuming they are lazy, arrogant or stupid if they don't either use tools available to present themselves as neuronormative, or take a risk and put it out there that they're not.
You're assuming that having a learning disability is something that would make them unattractive. Absolutely not. What makes them unattractive is lack of awareness of how they are presenting themselves, and expecting me to make allowances for it.
I'm not under any obligation to "well maybe" a dating profile that is full of errors. If the content is really , really compelling I might overlook it. I have never seen an error-ridden profile that was.
Literal conversation 2 weeks ago in a local singles FB group:
Post:
Question of the Day - What is something that you do to get the attention of a person that you are attracted to?
Me: I'll message them if my interest is piqued.
Random dude: hi
Me: 👋
RD: wyd
Me: lmbl, anmybytofm
RD: lol, ok, how bout we talk some time after your done with all dat
Me: No
He later dirty deleted all his answers. 🤣🤣🤣 Give the same energy back to them and they get so confused. This white man is pushing 60 yrs old, according to my best guess. We had had zero direct interactions before this, but I had seen some of his posts and answers in the group before and knew I wanted nothing to do with him even if he had had perfect grammar. Could I have ignored him? Yes, but I was feeling spicy that day. 😁 He would be a definite B2B if we were on apps.
Great article! I was thinking that the written dating app bio is like putting your best foot forward, showing up as your best for someone to select you. Sort of like wearing a suit to a job interview. So when you show up sloppy it really says something.
I wish I had a nickel for every time I've been called "judgemental" as if that's a bad thing.
Yes! I am! I use my judgement!
I am judge, jury and executioner of my dating app and the court finds the defendant guilty of being a lazy, low-effort dork who is sentenced to an immediate B2B
#NoShameInMyGame
In my observation, people are all judgmental. There’s something they’re being judgmental about, as humans. However, if it’s something they themselves are bad at or not making effort with, they pull out the judgmental card.
BOOM! Nailed it.
So glad you used “could not care less” - so many people drop the “not” and it makes me sad. Years ago, heard a radio interviewer say “I don’t mean to be pedantic, but I am.”
Um, she's an English professor. Of course she phrased it properly. You're coming off as condescending and flexing weirdly.
I have an MFA in writing. Since my vestibular disorder kicked in 2018 accompanied by hearing loss— my capacity for grammar, attention to detail etc. all took a beating. On some level people need to be aware of their ableism—and if it is at play. I have certainly noticed friends and strangers get irritated with me when I make my many, many, many simple mistakes that are normal now. I realized—with deep shame—how often I had made unkind judgements about others in the before times. Just something to consider. (Also—it took me 5x as long to write this as it should have. I don’t often text people anymore.)
As someone who was always advanced in English and was suggested to be a writer, who then became a mother to a brilliant child whom was diagnosed with dyslexia, and then who has suffered an injury impacting a lot of abilities, I am now “advanced” in humility and can completely relate to your story -including how long it takes to now write something. Having experienced first hand his disability and now my own (both invisible and obvious) and trying to relearn and retrain lost abilities on my recovery journey, I now try to give grace to others not knowing their full story.
Allison- quite so, this BHDM group does run afoul of ableism awareness, cultural humility and other privilege - although I agree that people can make the effort to iron out a profile, more or less. Most importantly, as a musician, I just want to convey some sort of “i see you”- it must be incredibly frustrating considering your MFA in writing. I will take your note to consider all possibilities to heart.
Thank you so much! I appreciate the empathy. :)
And, you understand your disability and how to navigate it. As Jennie says all the time, the discourse community sets the standard.
Among your family and friends who know and love you and know your disability, of course errors should be looked over and every effort made on their part to meet you where you are and accommodate your disability.
Some rando on a dating app is under no obligation to make that effort. The discourse community of the apps expects you to meet the standard of a well-written profile, which you have all of the time and tools at your disposal to do. You could even get a friend to help you! Once you are in conversation, you can explain your limitations and suggest other platforms that are easier for you to communicate in.
I don't need a stranger on a dating app to do anything. I'm suggesting to those here to ask themselves whether ableism is at play in their glee at pilloring those whose attention to detail has faltered. It wouldn't have occurred to me to ask myself that question before I became disabled.
Allison…I agree 100% with you.
Love love LOVE THIS, Jennie!
Yes - sloppy communication in the apps shows a lack of care, attention and effort. Bingo, a sloppy partner. Who wants that? Not me.
And this is just the lowest bar. Why can’t more men clear this 1” hurdle? Because they don’t care.
Such an easy B2B. Stay safe out there ladies! And stay away from Sloppy.
With every article, I love you more!! Thank you for breaking down why grammar is important. It’s an indication that one cares. It’s part of our unwritten collective contract for civilized relationships.
YES! THIS! I am - unfortunately - a Grammar nerd and it's important to me that the people I communicate with speak proper English. (Unless it's their second - or even third - language.) I think proper grammar shows a level of intelligence/education/consideration that is important to me. Others maybe not, but bad grammar is a total turnoff for me.
Why "unfortunately?" That is a STRENGTH! Own it!
Any text shorthand in profiles or messaging is an automatic no for me.
“4 u” is a pet peeve of mine along with the “your” and “you’re” issue so many seem to have. It’s not that hard. The best one - I had one correct me on the spelling of Dalmatian last week - in all caps, no less. Okay, genius. I have had a Dalmatian in my house for 24 years. I know how to spell it, thanks! So does your spell check. 🤣🫣
Jennie, you always "nail it" perfectly and in a considerate, compassionate, non-alienating and thoughtful way. THANK YOU!!
I so agree with this! My best friend abbreviates in texts and it really bugs me, but I don't say anything. But on a dating site? Buh bye.....
A person's profile is their first introduction, rather like a job interview; a person rarely, if ever, gets a second chance to make a first impression, and should, therefore, take the time and effort necessary to make a good first impression. Proper grammar and spelling is a big part of that; at least, it is for me.
I have Zero shame pulling out the calculator to figure out the proper 20%! We all have calculators in our pockets now. 🎉😉😁
But seriously I have not kept up with the “hip” new way of spelling and don’t get me started on these new fangled acronyms 👵 I just straight up ask guys, “what do you mean by ____?” 🤷♀️
Side note: it’s obvious on the facebook page who actually read the article before commenting 🙄 people saying this is ableist are completely missing the point!! It is talking about effort.
Also, if they have a profession that requires higher education and they are using numbers for letters then they are desperately trying to appear young and hip. 😄👵